Celtic Heroes

Your a little confused mysteryman. Your first few sentences is how it is already. You can't dice for class specific items with an alt not of that class already. This argument is about non-class items being diced for by multiple alts. But the last half of your paragraph is ok.

Remember this is for all bosses. It just happens that the summer boss drops have been deemed all class so the unfairness has been much more evident. My solution still offers advantages for multiple toons at aggy, mordy, and other bosses. Your still getting the chance at the class drop for all your class AND your getting and EQUAL chance at the non-class drop as everyone else.

The problem will be people saying, "well if I can't get double roll with my toon, then I won't bring my alt," which translates to "If I can't get double chances at a non-class item, why would I help for equal chances at the item" (which doesnt make sense)

you seemed to have misinterpreted what i was trying to say, mostly because my first sentence was a bit unclear. what i meant was you can bring alts to a fight but can only dice with 1 of those alts and choose which class specific item you want to dice for so long as you are of that class. my example above explains this. you must have a druid present to dice for a druid ring yet you cannot dice for both the druid and rogue items that dropped despite having both class toons present. you choose one or the other.

I see.

I am actually saying that if a class specific item drops and you have a toon there that meets level req. and you were there on time you should get to roll for it regardless of other toons. Thats the advantage of having multiple devices and playing multiple toons. I think that is fair to allow them to roll for items in their class.

What I am saying is that multiple toons does not mean multiple rolls for a non-class item. As in, two rolls for the same item. Id balance this with allowing all toons to roll for items in their class if it is a class specific drop. Seems totally fair to me.

Yeah I don't not agree with you Damron:) I was only pointing out that the whole ethics angle is kinda grey considering all the fair/unfair things that happen in game.

That is why I began with the point that the multiple alts rule is something that has previously been discussed at length. To me better to stay par for the course than rehash old topics, or potentially revert to previous practises which to me were not the most fair for everyone.

At the end of the day these summer event drops are very good drops. Thus we have all these attempts at new rules, etc. I think if we are going to be a strong Lugh we should try to get along and be as fair as we can so that all have opportunity to benefit from the wonderful drops

If it is decided to go with one roll per person, I am afraid that you will run into the scenario where people will refuse to bring alts, or will only heal buff themselves rather than others as this it will be argued (as Vulture stated above) is only fair.

Personally I think all the different rules for different bosses in different areas is a bit sketchy. It would be nice if we could agree with one system for everything. This game just seems to get getting more confusing.

If it is decided to go with one roll per person, I am afraid that you will run into the scenario where people will refuse to bring alts, or will only heal buff themselves rather than others as this it will be argued (as Vulture stated above) is only fair.

One roll per person is only fair. If those with alts feel wronged than simply they can just bring one alt. What people don't understand is these bosses can be killed without all the extra help of alts and stuff. I am not saying the 200 level boss is easy, but with teamwork and maybe a few extra idols and restos the job can be done. Those that feel their alts are needed and are entitled to extra dicing chances can go elsewhere. Dicing chances are unrealistic as it is for this boss especially.

I agree with you that if we made it one dice for non-class drops that dual devicers would probably act just like vulture said he would or others will not bring their alts. Thats the unfortunate side, and the essence of what I said in an above post. "If I can't have double chances, why would I help to have equal chances." That greedy mind state is very unfortunate.

In regards to rule changes tho, this could be applied to all bosses and seems most fair for everyone. Its hard to not rehash old topics when the game itself changes as well. The current systems benefits few and hurts many. I think this rule change would be fair for all. (By fair, I mean everyone have equal chances at non-class drops) Very very simple

The problem will be people saying, "well if I can't get double roll with my toon, then I won't bring my alt," which translates to "If I can't get double chances at a non-class item, why would I help for equal chances at the item" (which doesnt make sense)

You're incorrect. It translates to, "If I can't get my well earned extra roll, why should I do double the work just for an equal chance?"

A similar rule was implemented before simply to screw me over, nobody else. The attempt failed and I got what many of you clearly never wanted me to achieve and shortly after I got it, the rule was abolished. I've won two level 200 drops so far with my alt, and here comes the rule suggestion again. To me it seems that once a person(usually seems to be me)starts to get a few drops on their alt, people start to become frustrated and want to exclude them.

You who base the slow progression of Lugh on people's alts, are also all completely blind or ignorant. Let me use myself as an example, you think Venus is slowing the progression of Lugh? If it weren't for me, the first MONTH of dl camping would have been HELL, and I know that many, many players can vouch for that. I was one of only three active druids at the time and of the three I made it to a much higher percentage of bosses. I used my alt as a mule simply to heal my main rogue but once I realized how much I was needed and how unfair it was that a level 130 was getting dl items I busted my arse to level. Now you're saying I don't deserve to get what I earned? If it weren't for me, many of these 200 6* bosses wouldn't have went down unless you all spent another half hour or longer just hoping some more druids would log in. The fact you say alts are slowing the progression of this world is pure ignorance, sure maybe the people who sit there and afk one device completely don't deserve jack, but the fact you generalize to penalize everyone is ridiculous. You say alts slow the progression of Lugh? Maybe I should take some tips from XRX123, he is a nice rogue main who seems to know what he's doing. Sits afk, doesn't do adds, has crap gear and doesn't try at all, doesn't even use haste/energy lixes, and yet he gets an EQUAL chance at everything you and I do. If you want to talk about the stunted progression of Lugh then take a good hard look at the real problems instead of just trying to unearth old conflict seeking to disturb the peace simply because you want a higher chance at an item. Maybe you should look at the individual cases and we as a world should issue temporary bans, or "time-outs" on players who aren't 'up to par'. Remember our good pal SHADOWKRAR's mention of robot-afk mode?

2 - Moreover, the DM will also be in charge to identify the robots, the cheaters, the players bringing matching rec acc into fight without really using them just to get an opportunity of dicing or the players with only one acc but in robot-afkying mode left to toilet, to sleep or whatever during a boss fight.

Cheaters will be baned on their one or severall acc on the dicing by the DM. Once again, the DM ruling will be law, and if the DM makes a mistake then, bad luck for you, try to move better your ass into the next fight.

What is sure when I will be DM, any cheaters will be out, even one of my friends or clansmates.

Of course the DM shouldn't have all the stress of keeping watch, but the players who wish to exclude, there's your chance to do it.

It's just plain moronic that you want me and others to voluntarily bring extra manpower, use extra brainpower, waste extra supplies, and help carry the fight, to receive no benefit on our part and then when we reject your (not)generous offer you call us immature.The way you put it, bringing alts to a fight(and actually putting in effort) is like working overtime while picking up another worker's slack, all the while he gets paid the same as you for everything you do.

Never said anything about the progression of Lugh.

Also, my solution does give dual devicers a benefit if you look. You can roll for any class drop that comes with your class regardless if you have two classes and won the first class drop (big benefit). Your allowing yourself to get rogue and druid drops on same boss, pretty awesome if you ask me.

The key to point is being fair with non-class drops. It just so happens this event made that unfairness very noticeable.

I also appreciate your rant about how needed you are and how awesome you are. Praise you, but no I don't think that gives you the right for double chances on non-class items. There are no "well-earned" extra rolls. An extra roll = unfairness. Many players don't even have the option to dual device. You can and everyone appreciates your druids help, but the sense of entitlement to extra rolls is uninvited.

My solution, again, is for all bosses, so there is a nice advantage for dualing on bosses; it just so happens the summer boss has been deemed non-class drops.

A huge key to your above rant neglects the advantage I proposed for dual devicers. My solution does give dual devicers a nice advantage at bosses, check again.

Another half hour on the 200 boss without you? no way. i cannot believe the level of arrogance here. you mention you have 2 boss drops from the lvl 200 boss, yet many people dont even have 1 drop, yet you have 2 due to double dicing chances.

Never said anything about the progression of Lugh.

You agreed with Mysteryman's post on it, may as well have said it yourself.

Also, my solution does give dual devicers a benefit if you look. You can roll for any class drop that comes with your class regardless if you have two classes and won the first class drop (big benefit). Your allowing yourself to get rogue and druid drops on same boss, pretty awesome if you ask me.

How is this any more fair than what we currently have? You're now willing to allow players to not only get double the rolls but even double the items. There is no rogue 'alts' per say, so it seems you're just willing to push the alts away from getting items that you desire.

I also appreciate your rant about how needed you are and how awesome you are. Praise you, but no I don't think that gives you the right for double chances on non-class items. There are no "well-earned" extra rolls. An extra roll = unfairness. Many players don't even have the option to dual device. You can and everyone appreciates your druids help, but the sense of entitlement to extra rolls is uninvited.

If I'm not needed and my 'extra roll' is uninvited then so be it, don't bother to call my druid for help.

Also, my solution does give dual devicers a benefit if you look. You can roll for any class drop that comes with your class regardless if you have two classes and won the first class drop (big benefit). Your allowing yourself to get rogue and druid drops on same boss, pretty awesome if you ask me.

There are no "well-earned" extra rolls. An extra roll = unfairness.

Are you even reading what you're typing? Or are you just seeking argument?

A huge key to your above rant neglects the advantage I proposed for dual devicers. My solution does give dual devicers a nice advantage at bosses, check again.

Not interested in your horrible advantage, that would be worse for the crybabies than it is now.


Please Damron, who entitled you as the leader of fairness? Since when can one single person make an idea and so boldly state, "THIS IDEA IS THE MOST FAIR" all the while he ignores everyone else's opinion, or rather disregard's them as something useless and labels the player greedy or any other name? As a discussion you're supposed to be discussing the idea brought up, not bashing everyone else with name calling etc. You're even ignoring your own thoughts, look at the other side of your own argument. You're saying we're greedy for being asked to work extra and be rewarded the minimum, I believe one may also have the perception that you are the one that shall be named greedy for asking that people work bonus and get paid minimum.

I'm not saying I'm the king of fairness.

And no I never agreed that alts were slowing progession in lugh. My, I agree with you line was for disolute.

You seem confused. I'm not pushing any alts away from any item. Ill put it plainly. If your a druid of req level and made boss and druid item drops you roll for it. If your a rogue and rogue item drops you get to roll for it. warrior warrior so on and so on. This would be regardless of whether its an alt or a main or whatever. However I don't think that a player should be allowed to roll two dice for a non-class item. Simple as that.

I also never ask anyone to work extra or get paid minimum. This solution is just so everyone has an equal chance at non-class drops.

I appreciate you quoting my sentences, so let me be more clear. I'm talking about two or three rolls for one item. I think if a class drop item comes, all toons of that class should be able to roll for it. Thats the reward for leveling that character to the required level. However, I don't think this means you should get 2 rolls for 1 item when other people can only roll once.

Now, its clear you don't agree, which is fine.