Celtic Heroes

I've given Azz 250k personally already.

With the profits given back, that should be more than enough to resolve the issue on this end.

The chiefs and players from the other clans will hopefully now step up and put the issue to rest. Continuing to bully and ostracize this player and refusing to group him, etc, is not putting it to rest though.

[quote="castiglioni"]You can only be punished for buying and selling stolen property if you knew or should have known that it was stolen. /quote]

This is exactly the point, Cas. The purchaser either knew (if you accept Viru's information as true) or should have known that the camo was stolen. Thus, making him culpable as a purchaser of stolen property.

Why should he have known? Because 1) NO ONE sells a camo charm! and 2) ABSOLUTELY NO FREAKING WAY anyone sells a camo charm for 1 million gold!! Indeed, there were people approached by the purchaser who attempted to sell the stolen camo charm for various amounts of money who refused to buy it precisely because the transaction smelled.

And, btw, I am not accepting the rationale that the purchaser behaved in exactly the same way that Azz did--the purchaser bought the camo TO RESELL IT. Not as an altruistic move to return it to its rightful owner. Had he done that, I would have lauded him for a great guy and probably donated my money to help recover some of his cost.

And, yes, all sightings of fraudulent player accounts of which I am aware are being reported. As we know, however, OTM can take its sweet time providing support in this area. And they regularly fall back on the statement that all items given or sold cannot be returned.

At any rate, I am done with this argument and done with this player.

At any rate, I am done with this argument and done with this player.

It is easy to wash your hands of it, rehash the same arguments, and drive a player out of the game.

And you assume that he should have known because all of you would have known. That's not enough to prove someone guilty.

And still, none of you addressed the key point that someone had to buy it back. Someone has to be out the money for the charm. Why should it be my clannie?

What would have happened if he had not bought it? Would the scammer have had a change of heart and given it back?

You would not have gotten the charm back unless someone bought it back.

With the profits and heli's contribution, you guys have gotten 650k back now. You guys are only out 350K. You have your charm back that your friend allowed to get scammed.

If you are going to continue to give this player a hard time, then you guys should give the 650K back, as I am pretty sure it was given with the idea that it was going to fix this.

Hey guys.

Stop this madness.

Does not matter if someone had to buy it from a scammer first. Camo charms are priceless and only a fool would sell one unless he would fear keeping it more. Just my opinion, take it or leave it.

Thank you Azz for fixing the wrong and if you still miss any gold I will be happy to pay you your loss. It is only gold after all.

The important thing is that Gin got the camo charm back and is not quitting as some others did because they have lost everything they held dear in the game.

And as for Heli and Elixir clan, leave them alone. Being chief is not easy and Heli is trying to do his best. Sometime he succeeds, sometimes he fails. Some of their views are different but that is understandable because their values are different too. Also I think some members are in the clan because they did not fit or were not accepted anywhere else. I admit that according to my personal standards not all Elixir members are exemplary but if you have similar view I suggest to pick those problematic members and either block or ignore them. Heli is actively dealing with issues so there is no need to condemn the whole clan or push it so it escalates to clan wars.

@castiglioni Though I really admire your loyalty to your clan, I have to tell you that your efforts to defend your clan are contraproductive. The reputation is gained and lost not by words but by actions. The damage was done and talking helps only to the point when you say that you accept the current status and want to make it better. Then only actions can make it better and talking mostly makes things only worse because the important had been said already and no one wants to hear the same again and again. You are a good man but not everyone is like you and many will use you as a shield if you let them. Don't.

Toy

Hey guys.

Stop this madness.

Does not matter if someone had to buy it from a scammer first. Camo charms are priceless and only a fool would sell one unless he would fear keeping it more. Just my opinion, take it or leave it.

Thank you Azz for fixing the wrong and if you still miss any gold I will be happy to pay you your loss. It is only gold after all.

The important thing is that Gin got the camo charm back and is not quitting as some others did because they have lost everything they held dear in the game.

And as for Heli and Elixir clan, leave them alone. Being chief is not easy and Heli is trying to do his best. Sometime he succeeds, sometimes he fails. Some of their views are different but that is understandable because their values are different too. Also I think some members are in the clan because they did not fit or were not accepted anywhere else. I admit that according to my personal standards not all Elixir members are exemplary but if you have similar view I suggest to pick those problematic members and either block or ignore them. Heli is actively dealing with issues so there is no need to condemn the whole clan or push it so it escalates to clan wars.

@castiglioni Though I really admire your loyalty to your clan, I have to tell you that your efforts to defend your clan are contraproductive. The reputation is gained and lost not by words but by actions. The damage was done and talking helps only to the point when you say that you accept the current status and want to make it better. Then only actions can make it better and talking mostly makes things only worse because the important had been said already and no one wants to hear the same again and again. You are a good man but not everyone is like you and many will use you as a shield if you let them. Don't.

Toy

+1

You might as well tell this buyer of the charm since he clearly DOESN'T know right from wrong and definitely did the WRONG thing to delete his account and move on. MAJORITY of the high lvl characters who are active will NEVER group or let him roll for items. Unless elixer can solo every boss on the server for DL He will never get a drop unless given by his clan mates. As far as I am concerned if a clan accepts what he did as the RIGHT thing then they should be banned as well until this individual is dealt with. Also anyone giving or selling items to this person should be banned. This is a game BUT real money is used. Any respectable person who has any morals would have done the right thing. He would have made way more friends and easier life on his game character if he had done the right thing.
Funny thing is the server bans a player for being a jerk but wants to let this be ok!!! At least the jerk paid 2-3x the amount of gold for his items rather than be involved in a scam. My vote is he is banned forever and if not careful other people will be too for backing his actions.
Cheers to the one who actually gave the charm back to the owner free of charge.

To clarify i have nothing against the Elixer clan but only the player involved. I hope the Elixer clan won't support these actions by this player. This is not an easy time for the clan and I hope the right thing will be done.

If the Camo charm hadn't been bought of the scammer in the first place it couldve been that gin would never get it back even if the person did sell it at a profit that profit was refunded after the player realized it was scammed why should an unknowing player be forced to give 1m of his hard earned cash away if anything you should be working on a group effort to find the scammer not treat the buyer who gave away 400k to make up for it like a piece unfathomable.

Need this continue? This whole argument is counterproductive. From what i understand the wrong has been righted, and everyone is fine.

Need this continue? This whole argument is counterproductive. From what i understand the wrong has been righted, and everyone is fine.

Everyone is not fine. They're not letting him in any boss fights anywhere.

If the Camo charm hadn't been bought of the scammer in the first place it couldve been that gin would never get it back even if the person did sell it at a profit that profit was refunded after the player realized it was scammed why should an unknowing player be forced to give 1m of his hard earned cash away if anything you should be working on a group effort to find the scammer not treat the buyer who gave away 400k to make up for it like a piece ****.

Exactly.

The damage was done and talking helps only to the point when you say that you accept the current status and want to make it better.

Toy

Accept the current status? Basically, accept what other people say without question or thought about it. Accept exactly what they say and how they say it regardless of if they are right or not? If this is not how you meant it, please clarify . . .