Celtic Heroes

Hello.

To avoid further misunderstandings here are the summarized rules for end bosses.

Updated: 2013-09-13 (updates are colored in red)
Updated: 2013-09-16 (updates are colored in purple)

1) Explanation of used terms
- A character is a gaming avatar. Examples are druid Toycat or warrior Callumallen.
- A player is a real person. A player can have multiple characters referred to as main and alts.
- Dicing ceremony is a performance at the end of a fight where drops are distributed.
- Dice master (aka DM) is a moderator of a dicing ceremony.
- Class restricted drops are drops which can be used by a certain class only.
- End bosses are 6* or 5* quest bosses or event bosses whose level is usually at most 50 below the game level cap, meaning 150+ for the current 200 level cap. They are usually from medium hard to ultra hard and often require several groups and a well-prepared tactics to be defeated.

2) Details about dicing and drop distribution for end bosses
- Dicing is designed to offer a fair chance to all participants to get a drop usable and/or useful for his/hers class.
- Dicing usually happens when multiple groups cooperate to kill a boss.
- At the end of fight all participants gather to an agreed place, usually a leystone or another safe place.
- Dice master will gather all drops.
- DM will announce drops details to all.
- DM will moderate the dicing ceremony.
- Dicing is performed in rounds, in each round dicing for one drop is performed.
- DM announces the drop which is being rolled, the participants who are eligible to roll and ends it with a word ROLL.
--- Example: DM: "light heal ring +10 rangers roll"
- Characters eligible for dicing roll their dice. The highest number wins.
- If there is a tie on highest number, only those who had a tie roll their dice again. This repeats until someone has a higher number and wins.
- DM distributes the drops to winners after of each dicing. It is polite to congratulate to those who won. Cursing them is not nice.

3) Dicing rules and requirements
A) Minimum level requirements for dicing a drop:
- druids up to 15 levels below boss (included)
- all other classes up to 10 levels below boss (included)
- example: boss level 195 requirements are 180+ for druids and 185+ for all other classes (see 7 below for full table)
B) A character is eligible to roll for a drop if he/she meets level requirement and these conditions:
- the character was in the fight before target lock
- the character actively contributed to the fight, standing at fighting place or auto-attacking only is not an active contribution
- the character stayed at the fight for its substantial part
--- crashing, occasional logging off and on, or hitting wrong button accidentally and returning to the fight ASAP does not exclude the character from rolling unless these events caused that the character was away for a substantial part of the fight
- the character is the same class as the drop restriction (example: rogues only / rogue bracelet of sneaky attack)
- the character is melee class for melee drops (example: rangers, rogues, and warriors only / tridents with no class restriction)
- the character is caster class for caster drops (example: druids and mages only / focus boosting grimoires with no class restriction)
- drops that do not fall to any category above and have no class restrictions (example: all / damage rings with no class restriction)
- a class restricted drop when the class is not present (example: ranger class restricted bracelet drops but no ranger was in fight)
C) Each player can get only one drop in one fight. Alts eligible can roll and increase the chance of getting a drop for either main or alt. Once the player won a dicing, he is not eligible to dice for any other drops from that fight. This includes both main and alts of the player.
--- Example: Shadowkrar (warrior) and his alt S007 (rogue) both actively participate in fight and meet level requirements. Shadowkrar can roll for all warrior, melee, and no class drops and S007 can roll for all rogue, melee, and no class drops. This means, that for any melee and no class drops Shadow (player) has two rolls, one for each alt. Once Shadow (player) wins a drop, he is not eligible to roll for any of his alts in that fight and cannot get second drop in that fight.
D) Each character eligible to roll a dice has 1 roll per dicing. If the player already won a drop in the same fight, he or she cannot dice again.
E) Each character has a right to pass a dicing on a drop he or she does not want. This must be announced clearly BEFORE the dicing for the drop.
--- Example: How to deal if there is a PLAYER with rogue main and druid alt, the rogue is the only rogue there, and a rogue item drops? According to the current rules the PLAYER has two options:
----- Option a) The PLAYER TAKES the rogue drop automatically as he/she is the only rogue there. Since the PLAYER got a drop, according to 3C) he/she cannot dice for any another drops from that fight for his rogue main nor his druid alt. The only exception is if ALL PARTICIPANTS AGREE that he/she can keep the rogue drop and still dice for his/hers druid alt.
----- Option b) The PLAYER can PASS on the rogue drop. This means ALL OTHER PARTICIPANTS roll for the rogue drop and the PLAYER can roll for other drops for both his/hers rogue main and his/hers druid alt. The rogue main and the druid alt still must meet all the requirements for drop dicing eligibility (class/melee/caster/level restrictions).
F) If a player has multiple characters who contributed to the fight, each character is allowed to roll for drops as long as it meats A through E.

4) When to dice and when not to dice
- 1 group, the character/class eligible for dicing gets a drop. No need to dice, the game already randomly distributed the drops.
- 1 group, any character gets a drop he is not eligible for. Whole group should dice.
- 2+ groups. All participants should dice.

5) Dicing restrictions by character groups
- Classes (in alphabetical order): Druids, Mages, Rangers, Rogues, Warriors
- Melee classes: Rangers, Rogues, Warriors
- Caster classes: Druids, Mages

6) Drop dicing order (preferred and strongly suggested)
- IMPORTANT: DM should ALWAYS keep in mind the wellbeing of players.
--- DM should ask if there are characters who were late or are too low to verify if they are eligible for dicing BEFORE the first dicing is performed.
--- If someone still dices and is not eligible to do so, it is up to both DM and players to alert about it ASAP and deal with it BEFORE the next dicing is performed.
--- Also better and more powerful drops should be diced first for a good reason. Players mostly want to dice the best drop first because if they win a worse drop first, they would not be able to dice for the one they want.
--- Malicious DM's forcing their will against the wellbeing of players will not be allowed to be DM's again.
- Class restricted drops.
- Melee classes drops.
- Caster classes drops.
- No class drops.
- If there is a class drop but the class is not present, it is usually diced last.
- If more drops fall to the same category, better drops should be diced first.
- DL items dicing order for the same color: crown / horn / idol / urn / egg / gem

7) Table of boss levels and character level requirements
- boss 200 - druid 185+ - other classes 190+
- boss 195 - druid 180+ - other classes 185+
- boss 190 - druid 175+ - other classes 180+
- boss 185 - druid 170+ - other classes 175+
- boss 180 - druid 165+ - other classes 170+
- boss 175 - druid 160+ - other classes 165+
- boss 170 - druid 155+ - other classes 160+
- boss 165 - druid 150+ - other classes 155+
- boss 160 - druid 145+ - other classes 150+
- boss 155 - druid 140+ - other classes 145+
- boss 150 - druid 135+ - other classes 140+

Toy

Thank you for this precise summary.
There has been some confusion regarding a 2. dice roll for high lvls, but based on this summary, there is only 1 dice roll, and that goes for all characters that meet lvl req and contributes to the major part of the fight.

6) Drop dicing order (suggested)
- Class restricted drops.
- Melee classes drops.
- Casters classes drops.
- No class drops.
- If there is a class drop but the class is not present, it is usually diced last.
- If more drops fall to the same category, better drops should be diced first.

Toy

So I guess 'suggested' means what it means. There was some confusion last night over dicing order and a DM who said they could do what they want. Guess they can.

Toy,

Nice summary of rules. There is one; F) If a player has multiple characters who contributed to the fight, each character is allowed to roll for drops as long as it meats A through E.

So alts can dice both in same fight? There has been confusion on this one for a while.

I thought DL bosses only 1 char announced before drops. Aggy & Hrung different rules.

Thank a lot toy, for this perfect and very detailed summary.

For my part, and following casti repply, I would even go further : Most players do want the best and rarest items drops to be diced first.

The main role of the dice manager is to centralized the drops and to give the green light for player to dice. So we could also consider to impose any DM to dice always the most precious drops first. Why ? because indeed we don't want dice managers to be vicious and choose to dice first the worst drops in order to eliminate a maximum of dicers for the best drops, especially with the incoming drops from hungnir and mordis.

What is sure: I also concur on the fact that any players bringing more than one alt, should be allowed to dice for each of them as he spend crazy amount of time, energy and money into grinding them. But this said, also as you underlined, only if he use them to actively support and fight during a boss battle, and of course if if they match the level rec.

I don't mind if someone with different acc fights actively and has more chance to win some drops for its differents acc. But now someone just bringing his alt in a fight and not really using it, just to be allowed to dice should be banned for all his acc as a cheater from the dicing. The DM also should rule on that matter as a judge.

Either you really fight and help, either you are out as simple as it is. We could imagine choosing the dm before the fight, and he would also be in charge to look around and judge about the behaviours of everyone involve in the fight.

I guess this was the issue before, leading to banning players devoting so much effort into levelling two accounts, to be able to dice for them both.

When I came back, I really felt that as an injustice, because for my part and other players like me, we all give our real share of plats, resto, idols constantly into battles and I don't think punishing all of us playing two acc is the solution.

Lets nominate smart DM to identify the cheaters during the fights.

i see my post disappeared, so i will try again.

thank you Toy for the summary.

Regarding Alts - here is the basic rules as i have understood them:

Endgame bosses (aggy, hrung, etc)
Each eligible (proper level and such) alt gets to dices by class. Players can only get one drop however. For all class rolls, players get one roll, not one roll per alt.

DL quest bosses:
You decide at the beginning (and please announce) which (eligible) alt is rolling. You can only dice both alts if the group, at the beginning, thinks they need both to be successful (for example, they might be short on druids or dps or no mages).

hope this clarifies the alt rules as they have developed and been voted on so far. and as shadow points out, correctly, the alts have to be contributing to the battle actively.

thanks

Regarding the alt issue. I would prefer to see it in shads view. It should depend how active they are on their alts.

If they are killing adds with both alts or healing with one kill adds with the other. They should be entitled to dice with both. They are basically pulling the weight of 2 people. Using the items of 2 people, and also saving others their items. Only for the chance at one drop. Some see it unfair they get a chance at 2 class drops. But how is it when theyre doing the effort of both.

Now if theyre afk autoing on one alt, the players must let the dm know of this and the dicemaster will announce that this alt isnt allowed to dice. I suggest this happen to everyone, as ive seen people afk kill or focus on the boss instead of killing adds. I as a rogue/druid combo always attempt to kill adds and protect druids. Even help someone if theyre killing an add, but in the few fights ive seen there have been a few people who havent bothered with the adds. Some using 2 accounts and some with one. I dont seen this fair. Escpecially when some people are pulling twice their weight.

Hey all,

First thanks to Toy for such a beautiful and detail description of the dicing rules. As you know I’ve haven’t been doing to many DL bosses or participating in many end game bosses. So we had a bit of a discussion yesterday about the dicing rules. I might have missed some of the discussions about why and why not to let dual alts dice for DL drops for their class. And I don’t see what’s the difference between DL and end bosses! And as DL drops much more common end Aggy drops I really don’t see the reason for this limitation.

I’m must admit that I’m easy confused and I cant keep track on who pops up to a fight when. I trust that people will not dice if they are not entitled. Personally I like the “old” way of dicing that any alts can dice for their class but the player is limited to one drop.

excellent question ladyB

the short answer to why we do alts the way we do is because we voted on it and it was pretty overwhelming to use the system i described.

the philosophy behind the decision is that though a person playing alts well is doing two people's work (as Lukov put it), the fact of the matter is, most of the time we have enough people there that we don't need someone to do the work of 2. so it comes down to this - why let an alt dice for these rare DL items that take so long to gather where they were not needed and there are people who need the items. As we stated, if we need their help, then they get to dice as two people. In short, we want to help as many PLAYERS as possible advance in a fair an consistent way.

if you have alts, then you can choose at any battle which one you are going to dice with. and nothing stops you from getting your DL on one toon then doing another - or doing them in parallel. but when there are 15 people all desiring DL drops, it doesnt seem fair to give someone a chance for 2 when we dont need both alts. Also, it is quite subjective for someone to decide that a toon was pulling his weight or not. I often am on auto for bosses - but not because i am not paying attention, but because that is the most effective at a certain time. other times, i am using skills like crazy. I think we should aspire to a system that removes as much subjectivity as possible.

I may be wrong about this - but as i said, it was voted on and so it seems to be the collective wisdom of the server. One of the great things about Lugh is that we did come up with a system that received strong support across clan lines and we are respecting it. It may not be a perfect system, but it is pretty darn fair and consistent - which is kinda amazing for a group of people from around the world communicating asynchronously.

of course, one of the other great things about Lugh is that we are always willing to review and adjust our policies. We have, many times, revisited a policy and revoted on it. If this discussion makes it seem like a lot of ppl are not happy with the current alt rules for DL bosses, then we can easily vote the issue again.


lets hear everyone's thoughts!

cheers