Celtic Heroes

Ok. I've openly opposed in a few threads the roll ban exclusions and feel it is appropriate to offer an alternative solution. I oppose the exclusion because of the precedent it sets. The following is the alternate proposal and the logic behind it.

Lugh has a cooperative environment which works well. If you show up at a boss early enough, and are of the right level .. You can be part of the kill and potentially win a drop. This is a positive, cooperative environment.

If, however, some parties choose to be pvp centric .. and focus largely on making their toon better at killing in the arena - we should not exclude them from the cooperative boss killing. I know that i am about to be told in all caps it is not about the arena killing .. The out of arena side to be addressed as well. A lot of the out of arena shenanigans is intended to incite other players to want to kill them in the arena ... See it for what it is.

Pvp killing in arena is sanctioned by OTM. Accept that. They put the daily bosses in there expressly to incite conflict in the arena. The long wait times for next spawn? That is time for arguments to start .. All intended to create drama and conflict.

Any out of arena abuse is easily addressed by blocking the insulting toon. Then the player doesn't exist to you outside of arena.

If the block approach does not serve your needs and you want to see a player banned .. Screen shot their foul language or vulgarities and submit to OTM. If enough players complain about a particular account .. And provide proof in the way of screenshots .. They will be banned.

We should not start excluding selected players from rolls and then create an environment where the only way to get a drop is be part of lock group. We can see this approach is already failing .. And the kabal reaction has been to expand the exclusion to players who group with the excluded .. Or players in the same clan... What next? You were standing too close to tzu .. So you cant roll.... You must have been in his group. This is insanity. The risk here is that we start excluding.. And then the list gets longer and longer until the server is at civil war ... With everyone fighting for lock group. Stop the insanity before the cooperative server environment is damaged.

Proposed solution:
1. Lift ban and allow rolling on bosses like all other eligible players
2. Block players you do not like or who are abusive, dont group or trade with them if you have issue w them
3. Alternatively, Screenshot any verbal abuses moving forward .. And send promptly to OTM support with request for action. This is, in fact, a harsher punishment because if they get banned by OTM .. They cant even transfer items to another server.

Keep Lugh cooperative!
No subjective exclusions, and no exclusions by association.

Well thought out Barn. I agree, we cant ban a group of players as we'll only make things worse in the long run. It makes them want to be a pest even more. Block'em, ignore them, dont trade with them and screen shot the abuse. After all, only OTM have the real power to do something about them.

Good job barna. +1 for this idea. I hope other people will share your thoughts

I have to sam this sounds like a more appropriate solution. Thanks for your thoughts.

So the appropriate solution is report for language(nothing rarely happens to those reports) and keep feeding them drops to whoop your ass in the meantime? Sounds like a terrible solution to me. I personally don't think you've had them annihilate you in the arena yet or witnessed their ridiculous conversations.

You're just being fallacious with your argument, just because banning someone is undesirable to you doesn't mean it's going to wind down to banning a group, then clan, then people who talk to said clan, and then the world, and then complete chaos ensues shortly afterwards. You're blowing it completely out of proportion and I think you just need to relax it's not as crazy as you're making it out to be.

Here's an example: a player was banned because it was thought that he scammed a camo charm when in reality he bought a scammed charm and sold it back to a player for the price in which he bought it for. This branded him a scammer and without even a vote he was banned instantly and is still pretty well banned to this day. Did we ban his friends? No I'm still here. Did we ban his clan? Nope. Did the world end? Don't think so.

You say keep Lugh co-operative. What's co-operative about blocking, ignoring, and avoiding certain players who have gained a terrible reputation?

Ps don't report with screenshots, you're supposed to use the in game support tool to report people and not private message/e mail.

Doesn't seem like your solution is working either

Disagree.

An open ban discussion means that someone must explain what the problem is, while blocking may lead to a situation where the DM at a boss kill suddenly ignores the blocked character's dice.

In the last ban-case in lugh it was sufficient to describe the problem, and most people knew what players the ban discussion was about.

Now, with a ban, it is possible to discuss matters with the players in question, something that would not have been possible if all had agreed to just block them.

I really believe that it is necessary to be able to impose some kind of consequence on players who systematically and willingly makes a lot of players game experience more miserable.

Doesn't seem like your solution is working either

How isn't it? They aren't winning any boss drops. I think 'my' solution is working just as it was intended.

Ok. I've openly opposed in a few threads the roll ban exclusions and feel it is appropriate to offer an alternative solution. I oppose the exclusion because of the precedent it sets. The following is the alternate proposal and the logic behind it.

Lugh has a cooperative environment which works well. If you show up at a boss early enough, and are of the right level .. You can be part of the kill and potentially win a drop. This is a positive, cooperative environment.

If, however, some parties choose to be pvp centric .. and focus largely on making their toon better at killing in the arena - we should not exclude them from the cooperative boss killing. I know that i am about to be told in all caps it is not about the arena killing .. The out of arena side to be addressed as well. A lot of the out of arena shenanigans is intended to incite other players to want to kill them in the arena ... See it for what it is.

Pvp killing in arena is sanctioned by OTM. Accept that. They put the daily bosses in there expressly to incite conflict in the arena. The long wait times for next spawn? That is time for arguments to start .. All intended to create drama and conflict.

Any out of arena abuse is easily addressed by blocking the insulting toon. Then the player doesn't exist to you outside of arena.

If the block approach does not serve your needs and you want to see a player banned .. Screen shot their foul language or vulgarities and submit to OTM. If enough players complain about a particular account .. And provide proof in the way of screenshots .. They will be banned.

We should not start excluding selected players from rolls and then create an environment where the only way to get a drop is be part of lock group. We can see this approach is already failing .. And the kabal reaction has been to expand the exclusion to players who group with the excluded .. Or players in the same clan... What next? You were standing too close to tzu .. So you cant roll.... You must have been in his group. This is insanity. The risk here is that we start excluding.. And then the list gets longer and longer until the server is at civil war ... With everyone fighting for lock group. Stop the insanity before the cooperative server environment is damaged.

Proposed solution:
1. Lift ban and allow rolling on bosses like all other eligible players
2. Block players you do not like or who are abusive, dont group or trade with them if you have issue w them
3. Alternatively, Screenshot any verbal abuses moving forward .. And send promptly to OTM support with request for action. This is, in fact, a harsher punishment because if they get banned by OTM .. They cant even transfer items to another server.

Keep Lugh cooperative!
No subjective exclusions, and no exclusions by association.

I am worried about what you have suggested. Ive read it through several times, and have come to the conclusion that you believe we should let all scammers roll, and that players should be killed in the arena while camping their daily's....

Im not sure where in the world you are coming from, but your plan sounds idiotic. Sounds great, If I see you in the arena ill kill you because you believe I should. but just you, not anyone else, you okay with that? Ohh and does that also mean that when its just you and banned players of a certain class at a boss, You can request that they roll for the drop that would be yours otherwise.

sorry for the sarcasm, but I think you should get my point.

It seems that anyone who offers a different opinion...
Other than agreeing to exclusion... Is subject to a fairly harsh response.

I have seen a number of posts implying that the roll exclusion should be expanded to others who associate with the original two. This is precisely the risk ... Creating two classes .. Those that can roll (the special people) and those that can't (the outcasts.)

This appears to be precisely the route to dominant clan syndrome.

So much for fair and open debate.