Celtic Heroes

In my conversations with other clan leaders on other servers I do not know of one where lighthearted competition exists. I’ve visited with some that tried to have cooperative competition, and it worked for a short time; however in both of the situations that I am aware of one clan realized they were more dominant than the others and because good drops were far and few between they decided to leave the other clans behind and it quickly turned into the typical dominant clan scenario.

There are answers, if the aim is healthy competition. Improve the drop rates, or change the loot distribution.

Competition doesn’t have to come in the form of cross clan. Competition can come within the boss fights themself within a clan. We’ve suggested over and over damage boards and healing boards. Allow us to see how each of us rank on DPS and HPS per fight. Allow us to see how much damage was mitigated by a tank. This is healthy competition that doesn’t cause people to directly quit the game. Dominant clan competition for abysmal drops creates negativity.

This is actually a really good question, is there such a thing as friendly competition in CH? Or does it always end up being hostile?

You gotta look at the people that play not the game they play.
in all honesty on danu server it really comes down to what medications and illness players have.(undiagnosed as well)

that’s my alternative honest experience playing this game from the beginning.

you cant seriously believe that a servers dynamics are dependant on how many plyers are medicated and how many arent...thats honestly the most ridiculous far fetched idea that i have heard in years

as a guide (blue brigade) you should be impartial and helpful, at present you have added nothing constructive to this debate.

just explain your experiences in your servers how you see it. That’s all we are interested in.

You gotta look at the people that play not the game they play.
in all honesty on danu server it really comes down to what medications and illness players have.(undiagnosed as well)

that’s my alternative honest experience playing this game from the beginning.

you cant seriously believe that a servers dynamics are dependant on how many plyers are medicated and how many arent...thats honestly the most ridiculous far fetched idea that i have heard in years

as a guide (blue brigade) you should be impartial and helpful, at present you have added nothing constructive to this debate.

just explain your experiences in your servers how you see it. That’s all we are interested in.

What exactly did your ridicule add to the debate, nothing but hypocrisy.

Anyways in terms of the topic I’ve been part of a lot of clans over the last 6 years both dom and resistance clans. From my experience there is generally friendly competition...for a time. That being said the peace never seems to last a sustainable ammount of time. The resistance clans always end up folding due to player discontent (why waste millions of gold and countless hours for little to no game progression) as has been stated by others it’s just simply too easy for dom clans to retain complete control because of boss numbers requirements and gear distribution, there is never a major shift in power without a dramatic (generally messy) event. I haven’t been on open market servers for a reasonable amount of time to properly gauge how competition effects their systems.

All this being said competition is something that this game for the most part is utterly void of. There is no gauge for personal success or growth, the pvp system is generally considered to be a joke dominated by a single class with little to no structure and unbalanced damage values, the kill system isn’t even based on who does the most damage at a raid it is not an accurate representation of who is the best dps toon in attendance and is unreliable. The cross clan competition is often bitter reducing to exploiting, botting, and greifing to maintain or gain control which leads to a toxic environment.

Damage boards, improved PvP, an improved kill system, and modified lock mechanics have been some of the most talked about and request features for years now and I have yet to see an actual substantial response to any of these topics from either VR or OTM I must inquire why this is? If something isn’t possible due to internal limitations, would require a massive overhaul, or even just simply is viewed as a problematic addition then please reveal that to the community so we can help come up with suitable solutions moving forward, rather then bringing up the same topics year after year with no response.

You gotta look at the people that play not the game they play.
in all honesty on danu server it really comes down to what medications and illness players have.(undiagnosed as well)

that’s my alternative honest experience playing this game from the beginning.

you cant seriously believe that a servers dynamics are dependant on how many plyers are medicated and how many arent...thats honestly the most ridiculous far fetched idea that i have heard in years

as a guide (blue brigade) you should be impartial and helpful, at present you have added nothing constructive to this debate.

just explain your experiences in your servers how you see it. That’s all we are interested in.

Pot, meet kettle.

I wont further discuss your ridiculous claims because it is beyond stupid to even consider it. In my experience it is power hungry leaders who will stop at nothing to drag competitions name through the mud and stamp out competition at any means necessary. Even if that means playing dirty and resorting to personal insults, bullying and attacking the otherwise peaceful competition. Virtually every issue with competition stems from the leadership of the clans

And actually my job is not to be impartial. You are confusing me (guide - blue) with a mod (green) i can be as opinionated as i like in my posts and will continue to do such where i see fit.

Competition is either existential, or not. It is existential when it is consistently for the top bosses; and by which the economics, the means of distribution within a server, are determined. A clan ultimately keeps players because it can gear them.

Where competition is not existential it is generally very friendly. People are generally good natured, and mature players (of whatever age) keep the immature loud mouths (of what ever age) under control. This can be a lot of fun for all.

On Rosmerta there has been and continues to be friendly competition between the dominant clan and several smaller clans. It’s always been that way, not just with us, but before we were the dominant clan.

But once a smaller clan tries to take the big bosses consistently, they pose an existential threat to the dominant clan, and it quickly gets nasty. I think this is built into the game. To take the big bosses you need many people. A small clan or breakaway group will try to pull people from the dominant clan and vice versa. It becomes about personal loyalty, which is necessarily a personal matter. Once it becomes personal it naturally gets nasty. Griefing in game, hacking, attacks outside the game, false accusations - we’ve been targets of them all. Not from the current competition on Ros, but from those who have sought to destroy the dominant clan in order to replace it and gain control of the real economy - the distribution of top end gear. Most players on both sides will behave well, but I think hostility and deep personal upset is almost impossible to avoid.

The structure of the game means there is always only one dominant clan or meta-clan, and a situation with two equally matched rivals is inherently unstable, hence it is existential.

Before someone says “what about Epona? Isn’t that a counter-example?” - in these terms I would consider Epona to a dominant clan server. There is one giant meta clan to which all the in-game- clans belong; they all agree to abide by certain rules and to distribute drops in a certain way. So I’m not surprised when people say competition is friendly, as it’s within that framework. It would get very nasty very quickly if someone wanted to change the economic basis of distribution and fought against the cooperating rolling clans to impose another system. Just as on Taranis there was once a cooperative council of generals which made the whole server a sort of single clan organisation. The war and revolution to break that system was bitterly contested.

Do any other servers have a dominant clan that has a means for smaller clans to enter into alliance to earn and spend DKP?

Relentless does that, but reserves DG gearing to their members alone.

It’s had its trials and tribulations, but seemed to be pretty healthy. Unfortunately, even with that inclusiveness there were still those that were vocal about not being able to compete for DG without being in the dominant clan.

Do any other servers have a dominant clan that has a means for smaller clans to enter into alliance to earn and spend DKP?

Relentless does that, but reserves DG gearing to their members alone.

It’s had its trials and tribulations, but seemed to be pretty healthy. Unfortunately, even with that inclusiveness there were still those that were vocal about not being able to compete for DG without being in the dominant clan.

This is actually a pretty great initiative, good for you and great for the health of your server. Starving out everyone not in your clan just hurts long term recruitment etc.

Do any other servers have a dominant clan that has a means for smaller clans to enter into alliance to earn and spend DKP?

Relentless does that, but reserves DG gearing to their members alone.

It’s had its trials and tribulations, but seemed to be pretty healthy. Unfortunately, even with that inclusiveness there were still those that were vocal about not being able to compete for DG without being in the dominant clan.

Mhm think you guys probably have the fairest system, overall having multiple competitive end game clans just doesn't really work long term in a non-instanced PvE game where drops are so rare that if youre not killing the boss every week it will end up taking 10 years to get everything you want.

^ to add to this I by no means think it's ideal, the way these servers work where if you end up not wanting to be part of the dom clan/aligned to their PK system then you have little option but to move somewhere else and start again is a shame for people who put a lot of time and money into their toons.

This is actually a really good question, is there such a thing as friendly competition in CH? Or does it always end up being hostile?

This is actually interesting, in Belenus it was more or less that way.

Prior to TheCrew and Skyline there wasnt much to speak about imo but I was also noob all that time even during TheCrew and Skyline. Those two clans were both equal in stonevale, but they had some insanely toxic individuals making death threats and lots of racism, which was awful for server. Few ppl of those clans left and made Elementals just to chill away from them, but basically everyone funneled into Elementals, which u could call it somewhat an "unintended merge". Elem at ow days was basically a mega clan of the server, with PublicEnemy only competing on stonevale and then turned into LivingLegends which at the end managed to kill aggy. With Elementals vs LivingLegends, other than individuals (mainly from LL, I was in it before elem) that had stuff against dom clans being "greedy", it was friendly competition. By time LL killed aggy I was in Elem, we all watched them go for aggy, congratulated them and were happy for comp and said "now the fun competition begins". They didnt last long nonetheless, and their new clan Ronin was basically formed on hatred. The ppl who made Ronin went all over belenus asking to join them by trash talking us. In those 6 years (2013-2019) we have been trash talked, griefed, sent players to our clan to join and take drops, put spies in our clan for timers, took ss of their own members saying bad things on us and blurring names out claiming them to be us, used members of WolfGang by sharing accs on both worlds and used them for competition as well as an excuse for griefing us cus "thats how it is on their server", as well as additional toxicity. They had 15-20 WolfGang members logging their accs for first bt attempt (thankfully a wipe despite 60 or so toons and 4 salves in a row).

To say it in clean way, Elementals has eventually won that long-lasted "fight", and at the same time Novalis has took over Mabon and became dom clan over WolfGang so they got "choked out" in both servers, and now its quite a bit toxic cus on one hand they get really mad when losing (which I understand the frustration, but it stems from their own mistakes. Claiming we use runes to win is just silly things taught by wolfgang) and on the other hand our clan is no longer shy of smack talking them in return. But Id happily accept new competition.

Do any other servers have a dominant clan that has a means for smaller clans to enter into alliance to earn and spend DKP?

Relentless does that, but reserves DG gearing to their members alone.

It’s had its trials and tribulations, but seemed to be pretty healthy. Unfortunately, even with that inclusiveness there were still those that were vocal about not being able to compete for DG without being in the dominant clan.

Alliances, rotations and any kind of co-ops can work well, but its often very brittle. It requires trust, and in some servers that trust doesnt exist. In our rival clan there was someone who scammed half the server (both his clan and our clan) due to abusing OTM's original flawed account recovery system, and when he openly admitted to have done it with another scammer AND posted info for all of their clan banks, the only punishment was that his bele toon was bought by them (and he went to their allied clan in mabon, wolfgang, which they share accs anyway) and his toon was turned into clan's main tank. Or whenever someone scammed drops, they bought the stolen drops and laughed at us for that. That sometimes doesnt work, co-op and alliances work in a trustworthy environment, which depends on the individuals rather than the game or drop rates.