Celtic Heroes

Marshill good topic, finnaly someone that is looking to the bigger picture and you have some good ideas too.

Here is my alternate solution from the other thread. So far no one has commented on it at all.

Another example would be to award the kill not simply on dps, but on a combination of dps and hatred (aggro). This would mean that someone KSing would actually have to take the risk of being hit in order to KS. They could not simply take advantage of another groups work, but would also have to gain aggro and survive that aggro such that the combo of both accrued aggro and dps were greater than the other party.

This means that the kill reward is in great part based on the groups aggro management skill, rather than a hard wired trigger that can be exploited or solely on the amount of damage done. It still allows a higher level group to dominate a lower level one, which does not solve the monopoly problem, but eliminates a single dps class or small dps team from KS the target since aggro is a function of Taunt and Heals, rather than just dps.

Thinking about it, I like this solution much better than the first hit target lock as it still requires, and even amplifies the competive nature of things, but on a leveld playing field useful to all classes.

Good point. A tank should only get agro above his own group. Is there a dps group doing more damage? That group should take agro and when they wont have a tank and druids or other supporting classes. If they will get agro they will think about if they wanna do that (because it is gonna be an expencive fight).

Papi ha good approach but think tanking everything into account on heals etc would be far too much as I know some Druids who can do a decent amount of damage with over 1.1k heal so there would be Druids ksing all the time not rogues

I onestly think that Druids need a damage buff like posion weapon but I duno 3-4 times as strong? And then tanks need a counter attack skill then group who takes most damage gets 20% bonus this would fix a group of rogues ksing easy as the Druid would buff there dpser giving them more dps to keep kill making 2 rogues almost same as 3?
Warrior hits extra from counter att so his dps goes way up and the tanking warrior makes group having 20% bonus on points which means try will more then likely get kill with a group rather then rogues just coming and ksing

Well it would be funny to be ksed by a druid but the contribution suggestion, which is also what Caliban is alluding to, is also percentage based. The druid who did 56% contrtibution gets 56% of the reward. Those who did 5% get 5%. So there is never a full KS. Everybody gets something based on how much they helped. Frankly if the druid is the guy who kept everybody alive then he deserves it.

I guess no one here drives a Ford truck

There is no one single good system. No mater what we come up with, somebody will be upset.
Many MMOs have gone to some sort of KS prevention so it is unreasonable to assume that getting rid of KSing will kill this game.
IMHO the best solution is a mixed approach.

use the first hit lock for anything with 3 stars or less.

Use the existing system for anything with 4 and 5 stars.

For 6 stars use a new system where all contributions are counted, buffs, heals, damage, lures, wards, bolas, smoke, everything, and give everyone who participated a percentage based on how much they contributed.

For all drops, Quest drops would first go to those who have the quest. I agree with Marshall that the quest drop system encourages our current situation.

No idea what it would be like to code, but I like this approach a lot.

For six star mobs maybe limit it to aggro and dps since both these things are already tracked in cumulative ways from the pov of the mob. Does mean that a high level duo of tank/rogue, rogue/healer, etc. could potentially KS, but only if they both do more than 50% of the damage and hold aggro more than 50% of the time. Someone else asked the question of tracking aggregate dmg to the group. I think, again this would show up in aggro management as heals. I don't know, but I suspect that done this way a group relying heavily on idols rather staying alive would be at a disadvantage.

Honestly, I am not sure about the drop system once the overall kill credit is established. There is something to be said for things going wherever they go and having to work it out as part of the game only to the group that gets the kill credit. I know this leads to conflict at times, but it also can lead to camraderie, collaboration and trade. I would be hesitant to hard wire some things about that.

I guess no one here drives a Ford truck

I used to drive one, but it got totaled when I hit a deer the other day.

The problem with that is what if Druids become op which could e very easy strom touch can do well over 1k and vines are strong too then with healing the person not in there group bam they ksed you... I mean would be pretty sick IMO. Or even u killing a miniboss solo and 5 Druids get in group and heal u bam... They get kill IMO not a good way to go.

A Druid got kill on stonelord ealier in my clan... He also heals 1100+ I was half late but there was a 126 ranger and 146 warrior there from start and he got kill. So hmm addin heals to points can be very op IMO

There is no alternate solution cause this will never be considered, there is nothing wrong with game except the time for updates ATM. People just complain, you do not own the game, only post suggestions about glitches or bad things not I want to change ths cause I dont like geting KSed, no one likes geting KSed get over it. Like I say MAN UP or WOMAN UP ect. Put in the work and effort and you will win.

I guess no one here drives a Ford truck

I used to drive one, but it got totaled when I hit a deer the other day.

Betcha it killed the deer

The problem with that is what if Druids become op which could e very easy strom touch can do well over 1k and vines are strong too then with healing the person not in there group bam they ksed you... I mean would be pretty sick IMO. Or even u killing a miniboss solo and 5 Druids get in group and heal u bam... They get kill IMO not a good way to go.

A Druid got kill on stonelord ealier in my clan... He also heals 1100+ I was half late but there was a 126 ranger and 146 warrior there from start and he got kill. So hmm addin heals to points can be very op IMO

Did the Druid ever get aggro of the boss? If not, the accumulated aggro of the group, added to their dps would have given the group the kill in that case. For this reason, and because aggro tracking is already coded, I think that just aggro and dps, rather than heals/buffs should be counted toward the kill. Heals equal aggro. Lures equal damage. Wards/buffs equal maintaining aggro with no deaths over the course of the fight.

It does mean that Druids might gain an advantage by healing, even if it is not needed and that means the group needs a way to keep mobs off the Druid since if they die all their accumalated aggro is lost to the group.

If someone can just legitimately solo the 6* boss, without using the dps/aggro of another attacking the group, then they could still conceivably get the kill, by delivering over half the damage and having the greatest aggro over the course of the fight and calculated at the end.

I dont think this solo scenarios would be possible in most cases, even on the Eye bosses. Unless the Druid or solo player is many levels above the Mob, they will have trouble if they get aggro, even then in most cases. The solo druid will have trouble casting heals. Dieing or logging wipes aggro. This means that a strategy to solo using idols or leystone zerging also does not work. The thing is aggro must be maintained throughout the the fight. This also means calm and distract are useful if they avoid a death in the group, since they reduce, but do not wipe, aggro, by preventing dps/healer deaths in some cases. The code needs to look at the amount of existing 'hatred' at the end of the fight. The amount of damage cannot be reduced, but the aggro can if the players die or relog. The algorithm for this would need to be tested and I would imagine weighted toward the aggro side, since that is where the risk is. There are ways that this could be manipulated, but it would really take a lot of skill, special specs and practice to do... You would have to be specced as fully in aggro management as dps and manage all that really carefully. It would still involve actually having to fight the boss at some point, instead of just riding on the coattails of the group and this, I think is the actual complaint, rather than the idea of two equally matched groups competing.

If you never have to deal with the aggro of the mob in this system, you should never get the kill. In effect what should then happen is that someone attemtping to KS a group based solely on dps will in actually help the group.

I'm pretty sure for bosses ATM whoever does more then 50% of the damage will get the kill and drops

A way to fix this would be making all bosses drop according to % of damage done in intervals of 33%
For bosses that drop 3 items

For other world bosses that drop 8 items bump it to 10 and for every 10% damage done the group will secure one drop

Thank me later.

Dogma
On
Danu