Celtic Heroes

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You can run tests on each individual boss and try to figure some arbitrary hit rate out. But let me ask you, how will you optimize your build once you find out this number? I imagine it's very different for each boss. Plus, what's an acceptable trade off for damage/stats/skills to attack; meaning, how will you decide for example if the extra 1% hit rate compares against 100 fire damage? It's far too complicated to just guesstimate every boss and choosing an "acceptable" attack rate will be different for everyone.

You're correct in that figuring out how to best optimize auto atks and skills will be a challenge. It may even be impossible to derive a true formula of optimal dps empirically. But we gotta start from somewhere. And I can answer the 1% hit rate versus 100 fire damage question now. Shown below is a calulation method I'm using. Translation is as follows:

Dmg: Auto damage
A: Attack Stat
D: Assumed Defense of Mob
H%: Calculated percentage of auto atk landing
Hit Util: (Dmg) x (H%). Basically a normalized dmg value per hit.

The 2136 damage build is with a Darkscale Helm of the Sun equipped - adds 100 heat damage.
The 2036 damage build is with a Darkscale helm of Crusades equipped - adds 600 atk stat.

ht util.png

For low mob defense, the 100 extra damage from the Sun Helm is definitely better. In fact it's better up to 7,000 defense on a mob. However, there's an inflection point between 7,000 and 8,000 defense. For any mob defense higher than this, the Crusades Helm will output better auto atk damage. By figuring out the defense of mobs and particularly end game bosses, a melee class can at least optimize their build for auto atk dps.

This calculation is based off of existing stats. Perhaps in this scenario your calculation of the exchange or dropoff between the two stats is around 7k defence. What happens when our base attack is at 10k and base damage is 200? Or when the mob has 10k of every resist but 0 fire resist and you currently have 0 fire damage. Obviously the difference will be far different in those scenarios. This is why I'm saying that there's simply no way nor reason to be figuring anything out until you have free access to every single stat that will affect damage output versus any particular mob stat setup.

I would say however in my opinion, anything above 50% hit rate would be crappy but acceptable, where >80% would be optimal just as a general rule of thumb. Of course this opinion will vary.

Realistically you can only get an estimation of your auto dps on a boss if you know your damage, your %hit, and the number of hits you'll be doing*(not hitting, just doing) and only then will you really be able to determine whether you should add the 1% hit rate or 100 heat damage

hard to say since those damage numbers fly by over the boss. I'm not sure how anyone knows what auto damage they do on end game bosses

Fast graphics only shows your own damage.

First off interesting post!
Endgame bosses, Mord, Necro( no idea on prot yet) has like 5-8k defense I believe,with insane resists to pierce and elemental.
Let's take a base attack of 7000(*9200 on lix). Suppose a boss with 7000 defense(5000 on a good smoke), according to this formula hits ~65%. Now adding 1k attack to it(say void helm) to make 8000(10500 on lix) on the same boss, gets u a hit% of - 68%. A 4.6% increase in dps only. A 12k attack would on same boss result in 70%.,this is with the most elite gear you can have in this game on a boss debuffed to 5000 defense. Bosses with less than this defense, % rises obviously. So to answer OP, you probably need runandsteals attack or close to it to hit the mark you desire to, though for you to achieve it need high tier necro rings/ Orphic braces. Good luck.

Wish there was a way to asses cunning impact as well because even with 4k cunning ss misses alot on bosses, @2.4k expose, which shouldn't be happening -.-

This calculation is based off of existing stats. Perhaps in this scenario your calculation of the exchange or dropoff between the two stats is around 7k defence. What happens when our base attack is at 10k and base damage is 200? Or when the mob has 10k of every resist but 0 fire resist and you currently have 0 fire damage. Obviously the difference will be far different in those scenarios. This is why I'm saying that there's simply no way nor reason to be figuring anything out until you have free access to every single stat that will affect damage output versus any particular mob stat setup.

I would say however in my opinion, anything above 50% hit rate would be crappy but acceptable, where >80% would be optimal just as a general rule of thumb. Of course this opinion will vary.

Realistically you can only get an estimation of your auto dps on a boss if you know your damage, your %hit, and the number of hits you'll be doing*(not hitting, just doing) and only then will you really be able to determine whether you should add the 1% hit rate or 100 heat damage

Base attack at 10k and base damage at 200? I can simply update my spreadsheet numbers and apply it to a range of mob defenses for the calculation. What I'm doing now is figuring out the defense first. Figuring out whether a boss is susceptible to certain types of physical and elemental damage would be more difficult but not impossible. For example, I can use the Crusades Helm and track the actual dmg inflicted. I'll just need a large sample size; say 1,000 observances. Then I'll swap the helm for my Sun Helm and see the new average over the same sample size. I can apply these new observed average damage - say 450 with Crusades Helm and 500 with Sun Helm, and I will get a different Hit Util number and inflection point.

Getting free access to every single game stat and how it affects damage is simply not going to happen. OTM is a business. They've crafted an intricate and challenging game that keeps the player base intrigued. Like it or not, the mystery and difficulty plays a role in keeping us around. They're not going to give their model away. Businesses don't volunteer their trade secrets.

To me, getting even partial game mechanic stats is worthwhile. I've seen raid bosses rage with 3% hp left. This is definitely within the range of engineering a more efficient setup such that the failure could've been a success. To your point of mob fire resist, I don't really need to know the raw number. If I can show with testing that by adding 100 heat damage to my build will result in netting 50 total damage output to a mob, then I can use that info to make better gear selections. I think my example above details this.

I get it, it'll take a lot of effort and sounds difficult, if not impossible. But every bit of data helps in informing the players on how to most effectively complete their build.

^as a lure mage, I am slowly calculating the percentage fire/ice dmg resisted on certain bosses. Will eventually add pierce and poison as well, but will likely need a second device (probably a naked ranger). Eventually I am hoping to figure out the formula between percent of damage resisted vs boss elemental resist, and from there determine roughly how much resist each boss has. Will be glad to post the numbers once I get something worth sharing lol

With a formula of how high each type of dmg can hit on a boss, one could actually make good use of a spreadsheet like supa's and calculate dps quite precisely (tho most useful for rangers because no skills to worry about) to detemine the best gear setup/stats for each boss

This calculation is based off of existing stats. Perhaps in this scenario your calculation of the exchange or dropoff between the two stats is around 7k defence. What happens when our base attack is at 10k and base damage is 200? Or when the mob has 10k of every resist but 0 fire resist and you currently have 0 fire damage. Obviously the difference will be far different in those scenarios. This is why I'm saying that there's simply no way nor reason to be figuring anything out until you have free access to every single stat that will affect damage output versus any particular mob stat setup.

I would say however in my opinion, anything above 50% hit rate would be crappy but acceptable, where >80% would be optimal just as a general rule of thumb. Of course this opinion will vary.

Realistically you can only get an estimation of your auto dps on a boss if you know your damage, your %hit, and the number of hits you'll be doing*(not hitting, just doing) and only then will you really be able to determine whether you should add the 1% hit rate or 100 heat damage

Base attack at 10k and base damage at 200? I can simply update my spreadsheet numbers and apply it to a range of mob defenses for the calculation. What I'm doing now is figuring out the defense first. Figuring out whether a boss is susceptible to certain types of physical and elemental damage would be more difficult but not impossible. For example, I can use the Crusades Helm and track the actual dmg inflicted. I'll just need a large sample size; say 1,000 observances. Then I'll swap the helm for my Sun Helm and see the new average over the same sample size. I can apply these new observed average damage - say 450 with Crusades Helm and 500 with Sun Helm, and I will get a different Hit Util number and inflection point.

Getting free access to every single game stat and how it affects damage is simply not going to happen. OTM is a business. They've crafted an intricate and challenging game that keeps the player base intrigued. Like it or not, the mystery and difficulty plays a role in keeping us around. They're not going to give their model away. Businesses don't volunteer their trade secrets.

To me, getting even partial game mechanic stats is worthwhile. I've seen raid bosses rage with 3% hp left. This is definitely within the range of engineering a more efficient setup such that the failure could've been a success. To your point of mob fire resist, I don't really need to know the raw number. If I can show with testing that by adding 100 heat damage to my build will result in netting 50 total damage output to a mob, then I can use that info to make better gear selections. I think my example above details this.

I get it, it'll take a lot of effort and sounds difficult, if not impossible. But every bit of data helps in informing the players on how to most effectively complete their build.

What I meant by all that is that you'll pretty well never know whether x amount of attack will be better than y amount of some type of damage against a certain boss, so you'll never really be able to truly optimize your build for any stage of the game. This is made even harder by OTM making each boss have such differing stats, such that even if you find the perfect balance of your gear for Mordris, that'll be entirely different against Necro. Hope that was more clear.

And yes I agree that some moving around of certain items/stat points on a few people can make/break a boss fight. I just tried to highlight the issues with it all in my previous posts.