Celtic Heroes

You guys just might have been really really unlucky, since other servers received 1 or 2 by now. +1 still for increasing drop rates tho.
I realised the seeds would be a wasted component after a while when everyone has T10, so maybe lets say 20 seeds can be traded for a helm of your choice or even random class'es

Which servers are those ?? Danu has 25 kills and still no helm either.

Morrigan has 2, epona 1, donn 1

Youre just afraid that your moon helm will become less 'valuable ' and cool to have if bt helms start popping up. Dont worry. I would be too.

I don’t think so. It’s already been struggling versus DG sets, at least it’s always going to be best in slot in the Carrow, which is unfortunately still a large gear bottleneck.

Always gonna have value in rarity though anyways.

25 a year is actually suitable.I meam that’s 365 days. For only 25. Even thos 25 could all be royals, and don’t forget they are class specific. BT takes about 40-50 people to kill. That means if 25 were actually to drop, it would take a clan 2 years to get 50 helms, by then, new boss(es) should be released.

Well going off those numbers after a year there’d potentially be:
26 Dark
10 Shadow
4 Void
I think when you put into context that that’s 40 helms dropping in a year it seems like quite a lot.

Considering bosses typically only maintain interest for 2 years, and BT takes 50 to kill, and its only dropping 40 helms, assuming the helm drop rate is exactly the same as the class make up at the kills, it would take about 2 years to gear 80 people which is the general number of mains in a given EG clan. 3 years and most mains and alts would be geared, not including new recruits...
It sounds excessive but in light of the numbers and their value it makes sense...
just because OTM messed up with making mord helms rare af doesn’t mean we can’t fix it here

Youre just afraid that your moon helm will become less 'valuable ' and cool to have if bt helms start popping up. Dont worry. I would be too.

I don’t think so. It’s already been struggling versus DG sets, at least it’s always going to be best in slot in the Carrow, which is unfortunately still a large gear bottleneck.

Always gonna have value in rarity though anyways.

25 a year is actually suitable.I meam that’s 365 days. For only 25. Even thos 25 could all be royals, and don’t forget they are class specific. BT takes about 40-50 people to kill. That means if 25 were actually to drop, it would take a clan 2 years to get 50 helms, by then, new boss(es) should be released.

Well going off those numbers after a year there’d potentially be:
26 Dark
10 Shadow
4 Void
I think when you put into context that that’s 40 helms dropping in a year it seems like quite a lot.

Considering bosses typically only maintain interest for 2 years, and BT takes 50 to kill, and its only dropping 40 helms, assuming the helm drop rate is exactly the same as the class make up at the kills, it would take about 2 years to gear 80 people which is the general number of mains in a given EG clan. 3 years and most mains and alts would be geared, not including new recruits...
It sounds excessive but in light of the numbers and their value it makes sense...
just because OTM messed up with making mord helms rare af doesn’t mean we can’t fix it here

I don't know any EG clan with 80 mains. Every single clan that has killed BT to my knowledge has done so with multi loggers.

People are going to get bored of BT before they get enough helms to gear 5 people at this rate, with half the drops sitting in bank and over 50% that get used being royal tier. If theyre planning to keep helms this low droprate they better have big new content in the works or more people will continue to play less and get more bored.

The drop rates should be as follows:
Dark: 1 in 4 kills chance
Shadow: 1 in 10 kills chance
Void: 1 in 25 kills chance

So an item better than a Void Mordris Helm should drop every 2 weeks? So we’d have 25 new superior than void Mordris helms in a year?

You’d reach a point of saturation pretty quickly. Not only that, but it also drops Best In Slots for Charms, Necklaces and Rings for all classes. Not sure why helms have to be common.

Are you really comparing helms from a 5 year old boss that can be killed with a single group to helms that drop from the current eg raid designed for 40 players?

Best in slot necks for all classes? If you are only referring to the godly tiers then sure, but those aren't exactly common are they?

OTM/VR have put clans into an awkward position. The pureness bottleneck remains so most clans will not create DG helms anymore. A dark helm isn't much better than a DG helm, so 1 BT helm every 10 kills is a reasonable request. 50 kills with no helm is ridiculous.

The drop rates should be as follows:
Dark: 1 in 4 kills chance
Shadow: 1 in 10 kills chance
Void: 1 in 25 kills chance

So an item better than a Void Mordris Helm should drop every 2 weeks? So we’d have 25 new superior than void Mordris helms in a year?

You’d reach a point of saturation pretty quickly. Not only that, but it also drops Best In Slots for Charms, Necklaces and Rings for all classes. Not sure why helms have to be common.

Are you really comparing helms from a 5 year old boss that can be killed with a single group to helms that drop from the current eg raid designed for 40 players?

Best in slot necks for all classes? If you are only referring to the godly tiers then sure, but those aren't exactly common are they?

OTM/VR have put clans into an awkward position. The pureness bottleneck remains so most clans will not create DG helms anymore. A dark helm isn't much better than a DG helm, so 1 BT helm every 10 kills is a reasonable request. 50 kills with no helm is ridiculous.

This sums it up real well

I think we can all agree that the average lifespan for a boss is at maximum 4 years, with average interest spanning 1-2 years, with a steady drop off after the first year.
With this in mind, on average we get a new boss every 2-4 years, often times creating 2 years of minimal activity due to the game becoming just repeated grinding for drops that are too rare to incentivize logging in or leveling for.
I believe these are indisputable characteristics, but if I overstepped, please correct me.
More facts related just to BT, it takes at minimum 40 people to kill (think on gwyd our lowest was 43 with a lot of multiloggers), but usually it takes 50+ to kill on most servers, with a fair amount still struggling to kill within 48 hours, with some of the even strongest servers only killing once a week.

One more concept is related to clan activity and membership make up. Clans from my expierence have anywhere between 30-80 mains, with a lot of clans focusing on needing multiloggers to take down bosses. Most clans appear to consist of at least 50 active toons.


In my opinion, boss loot table design should be done in a way to fit all of these widely accepted gameplay attributes. From this outlook, the boss would need to drop enough items to create scarcity to encourage competition and peak interest, in an attempt to lengthen how long a boss remains interesting before it starts to become repetitive, while at the same time not being too rare as to make the reward be not worth seeking anymore.
From this enough drops need to drop within 2 years to gear 80 people. This takes into account that new players are likely to join the clan over those 2 years, and some drops may end up going to players who may take a step back after a while. In my opinion, 80 is a more conservative estimate, and considering servers like arawn, rosmerta, and epona, a higher number like 100 may be better due to the high player turnover and player quantity that exists on these and other servers.
Let’s assume a range of 1-2 kills a week as average. This turns to 52-104 kills a year for the range, and given a 2 year lifespan for interest for a boss, 104-208 as the total range of kills before a boss begins to fade away.
This means players should be able to acquire more than enough loot within those 104-208 kills to be satisfied with the boss before the new content rolls in. This includes taking into account that not every drop will be exactly the right drop distribution for how many players make up that given class and more specified role that the drop is meant for, ie dps war and tank BT helms.
If I were to go back to my original suggest drop rates of :
1/4 chance royal
1/10 imperial
1/25 godly
It seems fair to understand that not ever player will have a godly helm, but that every active player should be able to get the bare minimum upgrade associated with the boss assuming average server concentration at the EG level. Thus I will mainly focus on the royal helm.
At 1/4 chance, in 104-208 kills that equates to 26-52 royal helms.
The imperial helms would average out to 10-20, and godly at 4-8 helms.
This equates to a grand total of 40-80 helms, which fits the average range for how many clan members generally constitute a clan in a 2 year period.


While the initial chances I provided the other day seem a bit high, in light of these numbers they are much less so, and rather provide a more fair looking system that helps to reduce the camp repeat drag of the game. Mordy, necro, and hrung gear is old school. Mordy helms are 5 years old... 5 years ago I was riding the school bus to high school every day things change...
Whether or not you think the BT helms are fair for competition reasons, or whether or not you think OTM got precious boss drop rates right, BT is a chance to set new standards for reasonable drop rates that make the game enjoyable. The way I see it, we shouldn’t need to kill the boss for 5 years to adequately gear our players with the most basic of the gear for that boss. Rather we should be able to get the gear so we can use it for other bosses and aspects of the game.
Bossing is how we earn and acquire new gear... it isn’t the only part of the game... or rather it doesn’t have to be. If we limit the game to just bossing and push for harder drop rates... then we have no right to complain about camping or a poor PvP system, as that is the system we pushed for.

Anyways... that’s my perspective on this

Updates periodically take longer and longer. 2011-2012 we saw the endgame boss change from Avatar of Donn to Falgren then the meteoric update it was now deadroot/rockbelly then in 2012 aggy.
4 different EG bosses in one year. Not bad.

One year later carrow comes and mord/necro endgame bosses (think necro was patched in a bit later but don’t recall).
Then we wait a whole 2-3 years for the next content upgrade while we had to put up with recycled events. Then another 2-3 years later we get BT.

The company started strong and took a huge turn for the worst in late 2012- early 2013. Honestly the tipping point in my opinion was the first Beltane/Maclir chests. Before those the game wasn’t very p2w and gold actually meant something, now everything is inflated and the game sucks. OTM traded a good game for quick recycleable seasons and money maker loot box style chests.

I don’t think so. It’s already been struggling versus DG sets, at least it’s always going to be best in slot in the Carrow, which is unfortunately still a large gear bottleneck.

Always gonna have value in rarity though anyways.


Well going off those numbers after a year there’d potentially be:
26 Dark
10 Shadow
4 Void
I think when you put into context that that’s 40 helms dropping in a year it seems like quite a lot.

Considering bosses typically only maintain interest for 2 years, and BT takes 50 to kill, and its only dropping 40 helms, assuming the helm drop rate is exactly the same as the class make up at the kills, it would take about 2 years to gear 80 people which is the general number of mains in a given EG clan. 3 years and most mains and alts would be geared, not including new recruits...
It sounds excessive but in light of the numbers and their value it makes sense...
just because OTM messed up with making mord helms rare af doesn’t mean we can’t fix it here

I don't know any EG clan with 80 mains. Every single clan that has killed BT to my knowledge has done so with multi loggers.

arawn and epona both do or used to do it without multi loggers

Epona isn't an EG clan. He was referring to a single EG clan that has 80 mains actively killing BT.