Celtic Heroes

The Official Forum for Celtic Heroes, the 3D MMORPG for iOS and Android Devices

Re: Question about the Rez Idol Nerf Debate

#51
1. Getting to bosses without dying, challenge made by OTM? Well if so maybe inv pots should have been removed then.
Invis pots was the plat option for players who can't find ranger friends to camo them, or a group to help them get to the boss.
OTM (admin) said this was the reason why the tunnels/hallways/path are narrow. It was in the beta forums iirc.

As for those taking on enemies without proper groups, I would just quote what admin said last year when they added the idol timer.
part of the challenge is to create clans and groups that are balanced and able to take on difficult enemies. Really we would much rather potions and idols were not used during boss fights so players could face a genuine challenge, but since this isn't possible we have added timers that limit how many can be consumed in order to keep things from being trivial.
Clearly, the timer isn't enough as they probably watched and notice that people still treat death as a good thing and still zerg mobs by idoling over and over.
Im not saying that its not the point of enemies on the way, but if u wanted to make it such a challenge that we'll fight mobs on the way (which i must say is interesting, i guess it'll somehow work like a dungeon fighting mobs on the way to the boss) then OTM shouldnt make a plat item to avoid that, maybe if it was obtainable only by the quest it would be fine.

I posted this example in another thread about idols.
I keep a stack of deathcaps around when I'm leveling solo as a rogue, and I use them when I'm low on health.

This is because I have 4k health on a combo lix. When I am super low on health, suicide + idol is way cheaper than four restos, both money-wise and time-wise.
I'm not joking when I say that dying and idoling is by far the best way to regen my health. I used this strategy from level 120 to 160, and I have saved a lot of restos this way.

I believe this example highlights a larger problem where druids heals are replaced by plat items. Now, I'm not saying that nerfing idols will fix this. But I think it's a step in the right direction.

Also, I'm curious if anyone else has done "suicide leveling." I know it doesn't work too well for mages because of the long cool down on attune.
Like i said Swan, if dying and idoling is the best way to REGEN, then something is messed up not in idols, its messed up in the game mechaincs (low self-regen abilities, low~medium survivability abilities), so like it was OTM's solution to skip on improving the mechaincs by making idol, they're now doing just the same thing. I myself rather not die mid lvling, if a mob resets or i lose buff or just dont deal constant dps its a loss to me, and on mordy trolls i wanna see u lvling without a druid, ive done that once and i would never want to do it again (just soloing lvl 190 troll alone made me pot several times and i was on the berge of death).
Now i dont lvl my warrior but i do lvl my mage and rogue, on both toons, when i want to maximize my DPS i lvl only and only with a druid, its not only cheap, if i can manage dealing enough DPS (like clearing rooms or areas of mobs) alone, having a druid to heal me that i can keep going and not dying in the middle only helps me DPS wise and i gain much more xp, mostly for mages with their attune.

Last thing i want others to notice maybe, and i dont think thats playing smart more than it is kill us to use more idols, the 4 new PERM bosses, these 4 have aoes that are pretty strong, but its not the dmg, its their speed. The new bosses recast their AoE very fast, and i dont really care for their high melee speed as that part is supposed to be handled by tank, but the aoes are not only strong and fast, they have a delay of when the dmg dealt is shown up (so ofc the druid wont instantly heal u).
#NerfMages #AvoidBalance #WhyPlayARogue #MeatShieldOnly #HealingSlavesOnly

OP dps warrior on Belenus, hot af melee druid on Nuada. #Elementals #Apex

Re: Question about the Rez Idol Nerf Debate

#52
Well, then I am fully against the idols, Spawn with an aoe coming? You die again. Tank dies, and druids died before that? Druids have no energy to heal tank. Unless the warrior next to me can absorb my aoe, I don't understand how get a druid will help. This nerf is fully against casters.
Image


117+ Druid (Main) RedDogy
70+ Ranger
63+ Rogue
World: Morrigan
Clan: Looking for clan. (Old one was dead)
Current: Class Balance is a must!

Don't Judge a book by its cover.

There are 3 types of people in this world. Those that can count, and those that can't.

Re: Question about the Rez Idol Nerf Debate

#53
1. Getting to bosses without dying, challenge made by OTM? Well if so maybe inv pots should have been removed then.
Invis pots was the plat option for players who can't find ranger friends to camo them, or a group to help them get to the boss.
OTM (admin) said this was the reason why the tunnels/hallways/path are narrow. It was in the beta forums iirc.

As for those taking on enemies without proper groups, I would just quote what admin said last year when they added the idol timer.
part of the challenge is to create clans and groups that are balanced and able to take on difficult enemies. Really we would much rather potions and idols were not used during boss fights so players could face a genuine challenge, but since this isn't possible we have added timers that limit how many can be consumed in order to keep things from being trivial.
Clearly, the timer isn't enough as they probably watched and notice that people still treat death as a good thing and still zerg mobs by idoling over and over.
Sure, you can get a balanced group of a few people, but I don't know about you, but in Boggan rooms with just me and one other person we often clear the room and end up waiting up to 20 seconds for the mobs to respawn. Now imagine a group of 5. How am I supposed to level with a balanced group when there's not enough to level on? I'm not going to run in the hall wasting 10 seconds between mobs plus the time it takes to get back to the room, just so I can have a "Balanced" group.


For me, all of this idol madness just comes back to the survivability. I've said this before, but let me just elaborate further. In this game, survivability sucks. I didn't even realize just how bad until I decided to start playing on Android. There's a reason most of the players now are long time players, and I assume a large part of it is that it's so damn hard. Hell, following the quest line I can barely kill some of the mobs, even when I'm at or a few levels above theirs. Then I go to catacombs and have to wait 20 seconds to regen between each mob because an enemy that is my same level that is 1 or 2 stars brings me down to 10% health. Get a druid blablabla, new players often don't know that, and I don't know about them, but to me, waiting a while between each kill would just be a turn off. I don't know how much money OTM makes, but I'd bet it would be a lot more if the starting wasn't so unpleasant.

...And all of that is just at the beginning of the game, when you don't have lux or much knowledge about skills and stats... But then we get to mid or end-game.... Let's see here, pirates are OP as f-ck, along with the scorpions. I was lixing my druid alt today at pirates then scorpions with full lux, Diamond, and heroic health, energy, haste, run, wisdom, and xp lixes, and they still were killing me faster than I could regen with the best items in the game for my level. Natures touch was next to useless because of all those f-cking interrupts, so naturally I ended up having to use pots, every 3 kills maybe, because at lower levels, it's not easy to find someone to lix with that is efficient unless it's a clan member's alt...

P.S. Before you tell me to go to a different area, I did a few lixes at the OW eyes that were my level, and they were just as bad because even though they have less dps, they have more health which just makes for slow kills, resulting in more damage taken, and still having to pot every few kills.

Oh, and then we get to endgame, where apparently it's normal to spend 10-20 hours on one level, using countless pots and idols in the process. Where it's normal to be hit with 3k, or have an entire group be hit with 2k each because of some OP AoE. Where it's normal to just use up an idol or two running to a lix spot or a boss. Well here I am to say.... F-ck. That. I'm sick of having no real strategy to it. Sure, people have come up with their own strategies, but I highly doubt it's something that OTM actually 100% intended, otherwise Necro wouldn't have been so f-cked up when he was first released.. Along with Mord... And Hrung... Anyways, one time or another, we're gonna have to face that this game is intended to be played with pots and idols, and in it's current state, simply nerfing them isn't going to change that. I hate to feel this way towards a company that I've supported for years, but sometimes I feel like they're just a bunch of b-stards that don't even care about their own game; they just make changes and hope for the best, without actually testing their own theories. Maybe they're just preoccupied with getting the new engine out (Which I've seen absolutely No announcements about lately), I don't know, but something's telling me OTM doesn't have their head completely in the game.

Put simply:

I Do think that zerging is something that shouldn't be much of an option, but
I Don't think that starting in the middle is a good idea.

Simple as that for me.
If you think that pirates and scorpians are OP, you must be doing something wrong.
Psalm 46:10 He says, "Be still, and know that I am God; I will be exalted among the nations, I will be exalted in the earth."

Solumbum-200
WeldenS-36
BlodgarmS-35
EragonS-27

Junior Journalist of the Dal Riata Daily Enquirer

Proud Clansman of Divergent

Re: Question about the Rez Idol Nerf Debate

#54

As for those taking on enemies without proper groups, I would just quote what admin said last year when they added the idol timer.
part of the challenge is to create clans and groups that are balanced and able to take on difficult enemies. Really we would much rather potions and idols were not used during boss fights so players could face a genuine challenge, but since this isn't possible we have added timers that limit how many can be consumed in order to keep things from being trivial.
Clearly, the timer isn't enough as they probably watched and notice that people still treat death as a good thing and still zerg mobs by idoling over and over.
There is one thing here that bothers me in the extremes... Did i just see that otm would like us to kill these bosses without using plat items?.... seems like a joke. The bosses are set up to make us use as many pots and idols as possible. Why else have guardians who can be summoned (stop the healers or do extra dmage) and why can the bosses hit a 2k aoe? Im yet to meet that endgame boss that otm expects us too kill without pots and idols. Nvm the fact we need pots bc this games energy consumption is ridiculous. (If skills consume that much, ammies and braces and rings should be restoring much more). If anyone can come up with a single endgame boss possible to be killed without one pot or idol, id be surprised... (Alll u end game clans that can kill aggy with ease, im sure a pot gets used by ppl hitting adds. If not, grats, ur special...)
I was also wondering what type of genuine challenge otm wants us to face. Having the whole group run back to boss from laystone before losing the kill bc of that dumb aoe?... (No idols, rememb. I just love running back to a boss....)
World- Mabon
Sopdu- 180 rogue-ranting
CelticsHero- 144 warrior-ranting
"Real leadership is leaders recognizing that they serve the people that they lead."
"no matter what we breed, we still are made of greed. This is my kingdom, come."

Re: Question about the Rez Idol Nerf Debate

#55
^You shouldve known by now that this game runs on plat. Theres no way you can level up to 190 and beyond without ever using plat or supporting the purchase of plat.

I dont believe that this will change any day as long as there are people who are willing to buy chests every single event regardless of content.
Wattzon of Sulis

Re: Question about the Rez Idol Nerf Debate

#56
Here is what I expect to happen:

1. The idol nerf will happen (petitions are a waste of time)

2. Mobs will not change

3. Players with ample resources and support will barely notice

4. Players with less support will find the game much more challenging

5. Life goes on.
4 1/2. All those players who find the game much more challenging decide that they will play an easier game which doesnt require hours and hours of lvling, using items which cost real money and are messed up, and they actually have fun in the new game, where the company isnt trying to throttle out every last penny by destroying the game.
World- Mabon
Sopdu- 180 rogue-ranting
CelticsHero- 144 warrior-ranting
"Real leadership is leaders recognizing that they serve the people that they lead."
"no matter what we breed, we still are made of greed. This is my kingdom, come."

Re: Question about the Rez Idol Nerf Debate

#57
Here is what I expect to happen:

1. The idol nerf will happen (petitions are a waste of time)

2. Mobs will not change

3. Players with ample resources and support will barely notice

4. Players with less support will find the game much more challenging

5. Life goes on.
4 1/2. All those players who find the game much more challenging decide that they will play an easier game which doesnt require hours and hours of lvling, using items which cost real money and are messed up, and they actually have fun in the new game, where the company isnt trying to throttle out every last penny by destroying the game.
True, those who are unable or unwilling to adapt may quit. But, life will still go on.

Just to be clear, I play this game for enjoyment. If the game changes in such a way to reduce my enjoyment, I will reduce my time with the game accordingly.
However, I am reserving judgement on the idol nerf until I see it go live. I think the excessive camping and grinding sucks more fun out of the game than anything I have seen so far.

Remember, it's just a game.
Image

Clan: Ancients
RogerRanger 223
RogerDruid 160+
RogerRogue 160+
RogerWarrior 150+
RogerMage 110+

“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
― Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Re: Question about the Rez Idol Nerf Debate

#58
1.5k hp
You just have to play smart to not die. No, i cant just sit and auto like other rogues do it forces me to pay attention and move around. When im lazy i die a lot when i actually pay attention to the raid i hardly die

There shouldnt be the lazy option when killing a boss, everyon should be engaged in the fight
This is interesting. You have chosen a build that requires you to disengange from the boss and run around in order to stay alive.
What impact does this have on your overall dps on the boss, do you think?

Did you choose this build for effectiveness or just for the pure challenge of it?
Kril - Chief Editor, The Dal Riata Enquirer
lev 228 Rogue - Gwydion

Clan Relentless

Give a man a flame, you warm him for a day.
Set a man aflame, you warm him for the rest of his life.

Re: Question about the Rez Idol Nerf Debate

#59
1.5k hp
You just have to play smart to not die. No, i cant just sit and auto like other rogues do it forces me to pay attention and move around. When im lazy i die a lot when i actually pay attention to the raid i hardly die

There shouldnt be the lazy option when killing a boss, everyon should be engaged in the fight
This is interesting. You have chosen a build that requires you to disengange from the boss and run around in order to stay alive.
What impact does this have on your overall dps on the boss, do you think?

Did you choose this build for effectiveness or just for the pure challenge of it?
Noteably, it is a build that would hardly be affected by the idol nerf either. So, from a selfish point of view, that sort of diminishes the credibility of pig's posts about how wonderful it would be.

Not sayin', just sayin'.
Xanadu - Mage 228+ - Forever - Rosmerta

Re: Question about the Rez Idol Nerf Debate

#60
I would still like to get some insight on the questions in the original post.
  • 1. Are the loudest arguments for the idol nerf coming from members of the top clans of servers?

    2. Is there agreement that introducing the idol nerf now on iOS servers will make it more difficult for an aspiring clan to eventually catch up to the top clan on their server?
I see now that the primary argument given for the idol nerf seems to be that it will increase the challenge and enjoyment for players.

I am not so sure that top clans will see alot of that extra challenge, but they might gain that extra enjoyment by watching the weaker clans fail more on bosses that the top clans stopped killing long ago.

For that extra challenge, maybe more players in these top clans could choose a build that requires alot of running around and paying attention in order to survive. Pigman might have the right idea there.
Think of the fun you'll have!
Kril - Chief Editor, The Dal Riata Enquirer
lev 228 Rogue - Gwydion

Clan Relentless

Give a man a flame, you warm him for a day.
Set a man aflame, you warm him for the rest of his life.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 51 guests