Celtic Heroes

I am the Lorax, and I speak for the trees...

What I think is happening here is that there is a gap in understanding between OTM and the players in regards to the dragon eggs. OTM thinks the players are upset because they think the eggs are too hard to get which makes the pet inaccessible. What the players are thinking is "we just got cheated out of hundreds of dollars because we thought that we would be able to get 6 dragon eggs with a reasonable plat purchase ($300ish) but even after $500-$1500 we still don't have a max dragon." OTM is treating this as a complaint or "wouldn't it be nice if..." type of scenario, maybe even a "this should change in the next update whether it be a mini event or something else." None of these hypothetical responses even land on the same target the player community is using.

Why might it be that OTM is shooting at a different target? Let me try and walk through how I understand it with a brief side note.
With games there is almost always going to be a divide between the players and the developers. (I said almost always... yes ik there are very clear exceptions to this, but think about the majority of the games you play...). Often times this is because developers make the game so they see the game in a different light than those who just play the game. They see changes as work and not "wow this is awesome" or even in the case where they enjoy typing at a computer all day they still see it as their creation so they tend to exemplify the benefits and ignore the flaws. This is psychology not something evil or flawed of developers.
Furthermore, the player's wants are not directly said most of the time, and like with anything, customers never know what they want until developers show them, so it's not the player's fault, but rather that is just how it is. And the few times where the players do say what they want, their "wants" are not pragmatic and are more so "if I was God for a day I would..." than an actual realistic solution, which is along the lines of most of Aileron's replies to most posts in the suggestions and feedback section.
This division makes it tough to fix problems in the game in a way where the players are actually satisfied. Especially since a disgruntled customer will never come back and praise the fix, they will hold onto their grudge wishing that it had been right the first time...

It is with this in mind that I write this post OTM. As a player I want to try and explain this situation in a way where you can do what developers do best, develop what we don't know we want.

So back to the issue, there are two main issues the players have a problem with that makes this situation difficult to easily patch.
1) Dragon Egg Drop Rate is awfully low.
2) Many a player have already spent $500-$1500+ on chests since Dragon Pet was released trying to max a dragon under the expectation that they would be able to max a dragon with $300 in plat purchases on double plat.

If only point 1 was the issue, for example if this was beta and testers said that the drop rate was too low, the developers could fix the rate and the problem would be solved. But because of point 2, a simple drop rate change patch can't effectively solve the problem. Because of the second point, if a drop rate change is dropped in players who previously invested in the chests will feel cheated.

Thus an optimal fix needs to do a few things:
1) Increase the drop rate of dragon eggs
2) reimburse/compensate players who previously opened chests for paying to beta test the chests for drop rates

The difficulty is in how to compensate the players. In the past when OTM messed up either with server problems, revival chests nightmare, or other issues... they gave players a few combos or a mini event. The combos never truly equaled the annoyance of the issue in the past, but because usually those issues were server crash related players were happy enough to be able to play again they didn't carry a grudge that all they got was 5 combos for the game being down a weekend. With the mini-events same thing... In the past OTM has been able to use giving the players something extra to do as a way to help them move past their frustrations, which was well done.
But the issue with the dragon eggs is different, money was spent. And not just $100-$300 by players, but $500-$1500+. Dragons were introduced as being the best pets in the game, which they are, and as a result and to no surprise to anyone, players dumped in cash to get them. But they didn't get the dragons, they got lixs, sigils, and idol crate after idol crate... but no eggs.
To change the drop rate would make players into beta testers who had to pay to participate. There is nothing wrong with selling beta keys or early beta access for games, but
1) those players are told that they are participating in a beta and
2) players participate to get early knowledge, play before others, or other benefits that carry over to the live game as an advantage.
With the Dragon Eggs
1) It wasn't a beta, it was the live game, there already was a beta and players expected a certain chance at eggs.
2) there is a negative consequence to participating, as players didn't know they were participating so they went all out spending on a system that was to be changed due to their feedback. Players lost by participating, and everyone who didn't pay to participate became a benefiting free rider. By punishing paying beta players (because in all reality that is what those chest buyers are) and then immediately rewarding everyone who didn't pay to participate, you dissuade players from participating in the future and lose heavy investment. With an addition like the dragon egg these "paid beta players" would most likely be your largest revenue source, this could severly hurt the game in the long run.

Thus... OTM needs to find a way to reward or "thank" the "paid beta players" for figuring out that the egg drop rate was absurd. The best way to do this would be to reward them with what they were trying to achieve. Whatever the new drop rate is, give those "paid beta players" an egg proportional to the drop rate out of how many chests they bought. This is really the only way to fix it...


This is why you are receiving rants from the community, they are afraid that all OTM will do is the short and easy step of changing the drop rate and try and distract the player base with a Christmas mini-event.

Please, the Lorax is asking, don't chop down the Tuffala Trees, do whats right for the (player) enviroment and do an actual fix...

Thanks
-Bob

I am the Lorax, and I speak for the trees...

What I think is happening here is that there is a gap in understanding between OTM and the players in regards to the dragon eggs. OTM thinks the players are upset because they think the eggs are too hard to get which makes the pet inaccessible. What the players are thinking is "we just got cheated out of hundreds of dollars because we thought that we would be able to get 6 dragon eggs with a reasonable plat purchase ($300ish) but even after $500-$1500 we still don't have a max dragon." OTM is treating this as a complaint or "wouldn't it be nice if..." type of scenario, maybe even a "this should change in the next update whether it be a mini event or something else." None of these hypothetical responses even land on the same target the player community is using.

Why might it be that OTM is shooting at a different target? Let me try and walk through how I understand it with a brief side note.
With games there is almost always going to be a divide between the players and the developers. (I said almost always... yes ik there are very clear exceptions to this, but think about the majority of the games you play...). Often times this is because developers make the game so they see the game in a different light than those who just play the game. They see changes as work and not "wow this is awesome" or even in the case where they enjoy typing at a computer all day they still see it as their creation so they tend to exemplify the benefits and ignore the flaws. This is psychology not something evil or flawed of developers.
Furthermore, the player's wants are not directly said most of the time, and like with anything, customers never know what they want until developers show them, so it's not the player's fault, but rather that is just how it is. And the few times where the players do say what they want, their "wants" are not pragmatic and are more so "if I was God for a day I would..." than an actual realistic solution, which is along the lines of most of Aileron's replies to most posts in the suggestions and feedback section.
This division makes it tough to fix problems in the game in a way where the players are actually satisfied. Especially since a disgruntled customer will never come back and praise the fix, they will hold onto their grudge wishing that it had been right the first time...

This is a great summary. The target is not unknown and there are lots of discussions on the topic. We do understand why and how this frustrating for players. That's part of what we do as CMs right? Break down what the community is saying and bring it into the corporate talk. Then, we come and walk an extremely fine line of communications. It's finding a way to communicate it and finding solutions for both sides. I can't tell you that action will be taken because I don't know that action will be taken. I'm not going to make a promise if I am unsure if I can keep it. I am also not going to tell you that no action is going to be taken because a change to take action can always be made. (I've done this before because the powers that be told me it would never happen and then, it was changed much later. I got to eat all the hate for that one.) I'm also not going to say nothing to you and leave you in the dark. I'm sure I've pissed some people off, because we haven't been able to provide a solution to your grievances. BUT I don't think silence is the right way to go about these types of situations.

We are all gamers here and take a great deal of pride in the work we do. We don't specifically aim to upset the playerbase or throw out any criticisms that we receive. We want to create a great experience both in and out of the game.

I'm open to taken criticism on the way I've communicated with you. If there is a preferred method or you would prefer certain nomenclature, I'm all ears. I type like I speak, so I understand that I can read as crass or cold at times. I apologize for that. I want to do my best at representing you to the company and vice-versa.

I am the Lorax, and I speak for the trees...

What I think is happening here is that there is a gap in understanding between OTM and the players in regards to the dragon eggs. OTM thinks the players are upset because they think the eggs are too hard to get which makes the pet inaccessible. What the players are thinking is "we just got cheated out of hundreds of dollars because we thought that we would be able to get 6 dragon eggs with a reasonable plat purchase ($300ish) but even after $500-$1500 we still don't have a max dragon." OTM is treating this as a complaint or "wouldn't it be nice if..." type of scenario, maybe even a "this should change in the next update whether it be a mini event or something else." None of these hypothetical responses even land on the same target the player community is using.

Why might it be that OTM is shooting at a different target? Let me try and walk through how I understand it with a brief side note.
With games there is almost always going to be a divide between the players and the developers. (I said almost always... yes ik there are very clear exceptions to this, but think about the majority of the games you play...). Often times this is because developers make the game so they see the game in a different light than those who just play the game. They see changes as work and not "wow this is awesome" or even in the case where they enjoy typing at a computer all day they still see it as their creation so they tend to exemplify the benefits and ignore the flaws. This is psychology not something evil or flawed of developers.
Furthermore, the player's wants are not directly said most of the time, and like with anything, customers never know what they want until developers show them, so it's not the player's fault, but rather that is just how it is. And the few times where the players do say what they want, their "wants" are not pragmatic and are more so "if I was God for a day I would..." than an actual realistic solution, which is along the lines of most of Aileron's replies to most posts in the suggestions and feedback section.
This division makes it tough to fix problems in the game in a way where the players are actually satisfied. Especially since a disgruntled customer will never come back and praise the fix, they will hold onto their grudge wishing that it had been right the first time...

This is a great summary. The target is not unknown and there are lots of discussions on the topic. We do understand why and how this frustrating for players. That's part of what we do as CMs right? Break down what the community is saying and bring it into the corporate talk. Then, we come and walk an extremely fine line of communications. It's finding a way to communicate it and finding solutions for both sides. I can't tell you that action will be taken because I don't know that action will be taken. I'm not going to make a promise if I am unsure if I can keep it. I am also not going to tell you that no action is going to be taken because a change to take action can always be made. (I've done this before because the powers that be told me it would never happen and then, it was changed much later. I got to eat all the hate for that one.) I'm also not going to say nothing to you and leave you in the dark. I'm sure I've pissed some people off, because we haven't been able to provide a solution to your grievances. BUT I don't think silence is the right way to go about these types of situations.

We are all gamers here and take a great deal of pride in the work we do. We don't specifically aim to upset the playerbase or throw out any criticisms that we receive. We want to create a great experience both in and out of the game.

I'm open to taken criticism on the way I've communicated with you. If there is a preferred method or you would prefer certain nomenclature, I'm all ears. I type like I speak, so I understand that I can read as crass or cold at times. I apologize for that. I want to do my best at representing you to the company and vice-versa.

This is the perfect response!
Thank you Tadaah. I'm glad to see that no promises are being made that can't be guaranteed and that OTM isn't jumping in with a quick hot fix but is really evaluating what is going on here, and that OTM is taking these special circumstances into account with regards to the discussions. Really appreciate this! Thank you and Muldar for keeping us in the loop. This response really shows that a different approach is being taken with regards to dealing with the Dragon Egg drop rate that has not been seen with past issues.

Looking foward to seeing what OTM and the community are able to come up with and what OTM will implement. Your response is making me leave optimisitc.

I’m popping more popcorn...

As someone who has spent $600 on plat this event I would be frustrated if the drop rate was changed and some sort of compensation didn’t come for the 2100 chests I bought with plat and opened and only got 2 eggs.