Celtic Heroes

OK I’ve mentioned this to several people and I get the same comments which is “Yes Raven you are so right”. I want to say that the Frag system has caused so much Greed in this game. Sometimes the best players demand frags from lower level players who get them in a boss fights fair and square or they won’t help them get their frags later. Or they will say that they are the best tank/druid etc.. and they should get frags first.

My game has always always been about giving, but these frags make it more difficult. Yes I have given many frags to clanmates to help them. Many times these are frags I could use. I have given 3 dragons and 3-4 crowns, many elms, oaks, suns, and moons.

I would have preferred a system that was more geared like the boss drops in the catacombs. The frags would be class related. A druid Dragon etc…

I feel like this would create a more giving environment. If a warrior gets a druid frag then of course they are going give it to their favorite druid etc.. As people get gifts they will in turn give gifts to those players that have helped them. This sort of systems creates a more giving environment with less frustration and greed

Of course there could be the possibility of tons of rogue, mage frags etc… but with the proper programming maybe this could be resolved.

My second thought would be keep the same system but have players earn boss points as they fight in boss fights. Drops would be able to be purchased with these points by the person who had the highest boss points. If no one wanted to spend their points then the frag(s) would go to a random player. Someone told me the this is used in WOW. But I haven’t played WOW so I’m not sure. Of course then this could still cause the problems as players demand frags even though they haven't purchased them with their points.

I have played on three worlds and I can tell you that the current frag system has caused problems on all these worlds. Probably some of you have experienced this as well. As the new patch drops I’m hoping it does not cause even more greed.

Im new so .... Where do i get these frags? I know i need some for a quest.

Im new so .... Where do i get these frags? I know i need some for a quest.

Disc Frags are obtained by defeating a boss in Stonevale. You will need several of these frags to complete the each one of the Warden Quests (6 of them) and to get the warden armor and a weapon. These are meant to be the best items in the game. You will need a high level group to kill the boss with a healer (druid) and a Tank (Warrior) and other essential personnel. Stonevale is meant for high level players. I would say that if you can kill most of the mobs in Stonevale then you might be ready for a boss fight with others. I would say level 60 or higher is a good level for this depending on your class, although in certain instances lower level druids, rangers, and rogues can be of assistance. Good luck!

Totally agree with this. The system is crap and has ruined worlds and clans.

Hence why I really don't play anymore.

I come on to play and have fun not have to deal with all this drama... The frag system and the reward itself is NOT worth my time.

Someday I guess I can see myself playing seriously but as it stands, no thanks!

I've played many mmo's (some for a very long time) and I don't EVER recall some of the nasty stuff that has gone on. This whole issue isn't even that complicated but apparently the dev's can't figure it out even though we shove it in their face.

In ALL the MMO's I have played there is a certain detail that stops ANY issues before they start and that is the fact that in any mmo's i've played ALL members fighting a boss gain a reward. Yes, there is usually one very special rare item that drops to one person. IN ADDITION everyone gets substantial xp and money. None of this 6 people to a group bullcrap. Oh and sorry but like even 500xp for a 15 minute boss fight... is laughable.

If they were to make frags class specific itd take forever to get a set

If they were to make frags class specific itd take forever to get a set

Actually, as raven has mentioned several times above, it would be MUCH easier, its taking me so long to complete my warden armor, as for my Woven Sourcer armor from before, it did not even take half as long. I completely agree this whol fragment thing is getting completely out of hand. I for one, which admit it, get completely frustrated not so much now but in past time. Let's say I was not the most "liked" person in Arawn at one point, then more than now, it was hard to get a frag just ONE but before back in the catacombs people didint need Mage armor if they were warriors, Druids, etc so they were generous and gave it away, this is not the case with frags. People envy others with them and beg for them, even I have found myself doing this at time. The developers should really change the frag system and think of something else quick.

I'm confident in saying that my clan is among those with both the most full sets and individual total pieces of warden gear so I'm going to chime in on this topic.

I think the disc drops are actually a good thing. Every clan capable of downing these bosses can and has chosen how they will deal with the loot drops by now. Some have an order to how they gear people, others let people gear as luck goes. Both sides have pros and cons. For clans that fall apart over how they handle loot, well... get over it. You have learned about each other and just like in life, when stakes matter, disappointment in other people and disagreements are part of any MMORPG. It sucks but it's true. You're better off to find out now than in 3 updates when you're all level 150 and have a lot more time invested. By this point in time today, you should all be in a clan that distributes in a manner you agrees on.
NOTE - If your clan does not have a policy on how to handle this, get on your clan leader and guardians about getting one developed. Even if you are not presently at a point where you can kill Felfire. This will save you lots of hassle going forward and it's much better to figure it out before you actually have anything at stake than to try and figure it out after you kill Felfire for the first time.

Just to sum up the arguments on why clans use each method for those of you who may not understand...

Method 1: Random Disc Drops Say With Who They Drop With
Pro - Players feel like they get to keep what they earned. Lower level players who are allowed to participate may get a piece of gear earlier on this way.
Con - Can be manipulated by the order in which you join the group and who has received what for loot recently. - I will not go into detail on how to manipulate this, but it can be done

Method 2 : Clan Establishes A Loot/Gear Order (This is the method my clan uses)
Pro - Best/Highest/Most Active gear first and then help others gear up. (many other pros but this sums up the concept)
Con - Those geared first end up doing bosses for months when they have no real reason to. They may or may not actually do this. Lower level or less active players end up waiting longer to get any gear than they do in method 1.

NOTE - Really I don't feel the "con" to method 2 is a real con. Frankly if you're a lower level player, (Anyone 70 or less) you are probably not contributing enough to be a make or break difference in the fight on a regular basis. This is not an insult, just simple game dynamics. If you feel offended or don't understand this go and Attack Avatar or Incarnation of Donn as a level 10 and then do as a level 55 and see which one would be the make or break character in that fight.. Same principle, simply higher level bosses. If your high level/active players or "core members" did not participate in the boss fight, boss would not die, nobody would get discs.

ANOTHER NOTE:Every MMORPG needs choke points. These are places where clans or individuals are faced with a difficult task and to advance to the best gear and levels and areas you need to complete it. You may be able to advance to some extent around the choke points but there will be a HUGE difference in those who got through and those who went around. Without these, there is really no reason to progress rapidly, or really to progress at all because you simply end up the same as every other player. Most games your low levels can't participate in the highest level content like they can in Celtic Heroes in stonveale. Warden gear is like a mini choke point, since it's not required to get to the next level of content presently. If new zones with higher level mobs are dependent on warden gear, or new quests for much better gear are restricted only to those in full warden, it will be an actual choke point.

There are my thoughts
Nasim

I agree with Raven. Celtic Heroes revolves more around the people and clans then other mmos and the ppl in this game are the main reason many people play. Frags have been tearing things appart.

A better system would be to collect points by killing bosses. For example, you get 2 points for the harder bosses, 1 point for the lower ones and need 60-70 points to get the wardens weapon or shirt. 50 points for the skirt, etc. once you have completed and help others kill bosses, you get a large money drop (2k coins?) per boss. That way higher lvls are motivated to help lower ones.

Frags cause aggro full stop they should be class specific to encourage teamwork and sharing instead the present system does nothing but encourage greed and hoarding I have helped kit many people out with frags only to find that when they get a drop it's on the open market within minutes the shouts start selling drag frag etc
There no I in team but there is a me
The attitude of late seems to be help me kill boss then thanks can I have frag I need for sword etc and then it's up for sale
So now I won't participate in boss hunts infact I've pretty much stopped playing the game

I'm confident in saying that my clan is among those with both the most full sets and individual total pieces of warden gear so I'm going to chime in on this topic.

Method 1: Random Disc Drops Say With Who They Drop With
Pro - Players feel like they get to keep what they earned. Lower level players who are allowed to participate may get a piece of gear earlier on this way.
Con - Can be manipulated by the order in which you join the group and who has received what for loot recently. - I will not go into detail on how to manipulate this, but it can be done

Method 2 : Clan Establishes A Loot/Gear Order (This is the method my clan uses)
Pro - Best/Highest/Most Active gear first and then help others gear up. (many other pros but this sums up the concept)
Con - Those geared first end up doing bosses for months when they have no real reason to. They may or may not actually do this. Lower level or less active players end up waiting longer to get any gear than they do in method 1.

NOTE - Really I don't feel the "con" to method 2 is a real con. Frankly if you're a lower level player, (Anyone 70 or less) you are probably not contributing enough to be a make or break difference in the fight on a regular basis. This is not an insult, just simple game dynamics. If you feel offended or don't understand this go and Attack Avatar or Incarnation of Donn as a level 10 and then do as a level 55 and see which one would be the make or break character in that fight.. Same principle, simply higher level bosses. If your high level/active players or "core members" did not participate in the boss fight, boss would not die, nobody would get discs.

Thanks for responding Nasim. You have presented a very good argument. Your clan makes a Disc frag rule and everyone is happy. This is just not the case. It's a little Naive to think that peoples feelings can be governed by a rule. I have to tell you that I have experiences both rules in play to some extent in two clans. Both these rules left people upset and feeling mistreated and that the higher level players were being unfair/greedy. I have a few comments about he rules that explains how the rules effect people in the game.

Rule 1 -- (Con) -- Higher level players just won't group with any lower level players, players not in the clan, or not their friends becuase they might get the drop. These players feel left out and frustrated. Remember that lower level players eventually become higher level players. I'm not saying group with a level 20 player but if a player can help from any clan let him in. Of course even letting everyone in with a full group, with the current system has problems. When that player (that is not your friend, in a different clan, or a lower level) gets the drop the higher level players will all feel cheated because they did most of the work! I know this becuase I have felt that. I've had to tell myself that it was the right thing to do. This is an example of how the frag system fails and ends up frustrating people. I can't say that the higher level players are greedy so to speak but it shows the system is a bit unfair if the higher levels who do most of the work don't get the drop! Conversely it is not fair to leave people out of a boss fight that can help!

Rule 2 (Huge freaking Con) -- I can't tell you how bad I think this rule is.... You may not think so because your a higher level player but lower level players will feel betrayed, used, cheated when asked to give up their frags. Yeah your clan is awesome has all the Warden gear but at what cost? I'm going to tell you something that I have learned while playing this game. Success in the game has nothing to do with Warden Gear or how much lux you have, how many high level players you have, or how powerful your clan is, but it is about the people and the friendships you make. That is what makes this game special. The clan idea has helped with this. Honestly I can tell you that one of the best players to play this game read a post of mine http://www.onethumbmobile.com/celticher ... 8bf9a8c9cd He started playing and on my world joined my clan and leveled up faster than any one I've ever seen. Of course he has played Tom's of MMO's and is quite good, but the reason he played CH was because of the post above. He said I had it right! People are what this game is all about. Of course my post is related to DC but you'll get the point. Basically I play for my friends! Not the gear, the gold, the lux items, the Darkflame armor, etc... I'm sorry that I am appear to be on my high horse but I just think like Jezzy the system is flawed!

ANOTHER NOTE:Every MMORPG needs choke points. These are places where clans or individuals are faced with a difficult task and to advance to the best gear and levels and areas you need to complete it. You may be able to advance to some extent around the choke points but there will be a HUGE difference in those who got through and those who went around. Without these, there is really no reason to progress rapidly, or really to progress at all because you simply end up the same as every other player. Most games your low levels can't participate in the highest level content like they can in Celtic Heroes in stonveale. Warden gear is like a mini choke point, since it's not required to get to the next level of content presently. If new zones with higher level mobs are dependent on warden gear, or new quests for much better gear are restricted only to those in full warden, it will be an actual choke point.
Nasim

Thanks for posting this, I think this is a great idea!