Celtic Heroes

That key phrase wasn't anywhere in my original question (if that's the one you are talking about). My question was (not a direct quote, but along the lines) "is this why druids would use a trident over the blade?"

Your original question:

So is this why a dps druid should use a trident (45 dex and str boost) opposed to the golden blade of ice?

I also understand that the trident gives regen too, but not adding that to the equation, would the above statement be truthful?

But I agree, this is derailing the thread. Sorry everyone. You can put away your popcorn now.

Returning to Mariner91’s question about factors affect H2H damage, here is a data dump that would probably be better presented in a graph:

This is on my Level 121 rogue. Base stats and abilities that are variables are as follows, and are taken with all stat, skill or attack/dmg modifying gear unequipped:

• 200 str
• 190 dex
• H2H ability of 1210/1210
• dagger ability of 1210/1210

Baseline

• No weapon: 1400 attack/5 damage
• H2H weapon (Diamond Knuckleblades 30 pierce, +200 H2H ability): 1600 attack / 164 dmg
• Dagger (Diamond Quickblade 70 pierce, +200 dagger ability): 1600 attack / 383 dmg

Add diamond breeches (+15 str and dex)

• No weapon: 1415 attack / 5 damage
• H2H weapon: 1615 attack / 166 dmg
• Dagger: 1615 attack / 389 damage

Add bloodlust helm (10 pierce, +40 attack)

• No weapon: 1455 attack / 58 damage
• H2H weapon: 1655 attack / 222 dmg
• Dagger: 1655 attack / 444 damage

Add greater bracelet of the talon (4 pierce)

• No weapon: 1455 attack / 80 damage
• H2H weapon: 1655 attack / 244 dmg
• Dagger: 1655 attack / 467 damage

Add royal bracelet of venom (8 poison)

• No weapon: 1455 attack / 88 damage
• H2H weapon: 1655 attack / 252 dmg
• Dagger: 1655 attack / 475 damage

Add greater earthstone blackthorn necklace (40 heat, 40 magic damage)

• No weapon: 1455 attack / 168 damage
• H2H weapon: 1655 attack / 332 dmg
• Dagger: 1655 attack / 555 damage

Add mystic coldsteel ring (10 cold damage)

• No weapon: 1455 attack / 178 damage
• H2H weapon: 1655 attack / 342 dmg
• Dagger: 1655 attack / 565 damage

Add radiant earthstone breastplate (120 heat damage, 500 attack)

• No weapon: 1955 attack / 298 damage
• H2H weapon: 2155 attack / 462 dmg
• Dagger: 2155 attack / 685 damage

Add golden dagger of venom (20 pierce, 30 poison, 100 attack)

• No weapon: 2055 attack / 436 damage
• H2H weapon: 2255 attack / 603 dmg
• Dagger: 2255 attack / 826 damage

A superficial analysis of this shows that the following, among which are a lot of things we already knew:

• attack goes up by 1 point per point of dex in this stat range
• damage is 1:1 for elemental (heat, cold, poison)
• damage is multiplied by some factor for pierce damage (from previous research we know that the factor is the STR stat)
• attack is 1:1 for modifiers from equipped items
• attack increases by 1 point for each ability point
• H2H ability has no apparent effect on H2H damage

Returning to Mariner91’s question about factors affect H2H damage, here is a data dump that would probably be better presented in a graph:

NICE! Thank you Aleph!!

For anyone like me who didn't Know already:
Summary: Pierce (only non element/poison) is added to BaseDmg in the calc. Elem/Poison added to Dmg directly (Not BaseDmg), no multiplier.

Edit: Updated formula to account for Physical Dmg, and Elem dmg

A superficial analysis of this shows that the following, among which are a lot of things we already knew:

• attack goes up by 1 point per point of dex in this stat range
• damage is 1:1 for elemental (heat, cold, poison)
• damage is multiplied by some factor for pierce damage (from previous research we know that the factor is the STR stat)
• attack is 1:1 for modifiers from equipped items
• attack increases by 1 point for each ability point
• H2H ability has no apparent effect on H2H damage

Hmm not sure how I missed this entire section.

Comment on the bolded part. According to your numbers, and my calcs, H2H Ability Does affect H2H Dmg. Or at least, your 1410 Ability (1210+200) in Dagger worked exactly the same as your 1410 Ability in H2H.

Comment on the italicized part. Dmg from Pierce, is affected by both Str and Abil, and is calculated the same way as weap base dmg. This sucks for rangers... I have to check, but I believe Golded Quiv of Ice/Fire/Magic adds 100 Elem dmg?

You probably missed the conclusions section because I posted it in an edit immediately after posting the numbers.

Comment on the bolded part. According to your numbers, and my calcs, H2H Ability Does affect H2H Dmg. Or at least, your 1410 Ability (1210+200) in Dagger worked exactly the same as your 1410 Ability in H2H

I'm pretty sure that increased damage on H2H is due to the STR multiplier on pierce damage from the knucks and dagger, not ability. I have a fabled ring of daggers (+75 ability) that I can try later.

You probably missed the conclusions section because I posted it in an edit immediately after posting the numbers.

Comment on the bolded part. According to your numbers, and my calcs, H2H Ability Does affect H2H Dmg. Or at least, your 1410 Ability (1210+200) in Dagger worked exactly the same as your 1410 Ability in H2H

I'm pretty sure that increased damage on H2H is due to the STR multiplier on pierce damage from the knucks and dagger, not ability. I have a fabled ring of daggers (+75 ability) that I can try later.

Ah, that would explain it

+75 Dagger won't help us with your H2H? Maybe I missed something.

Also, if you look at All the calculations, the first one is based on Base, as in just your weapons and nothing else. And I came up with the same numbers you had using Papi's formula, which includes Ability. To be precise, it includes 6%*sqrt(1410) or 2.2529 multiplier, otherwise, I could not have gotten to the same result as your numbers. All other calculations pretty much have this multiplier since Dex/Attack are not included and nothing you added (after the weapons) affected your ability.

+75 Dagger won't help us with your H2H? Maybe I missed something.

True, but I can give the attack/damage values for dagger with +75 from fabled ring, and I can bind a trio of my antique rings of pugilism (+25 h2h each for a total of +75; I think I have about 10 of them unbound) to test my theory that dagger ability affects dmg and that h2h ability does not affect dmg.

+75 Dagger won't help us with your H2H? Maybe I missed something.

True, but I can give the attack/damage values for dagger with +75 from fabled ring, and I can bind a trio of my antique rings of pugilism (+25 h2h each for a total of +75; I think I have about 10 of them unbound) to test my theory that dagger ability affects dmg and that h2h ability does not affect dmg.

Ah lol gotcha

Let us know! I would be nervous if you get Your results, since that would mean there is a Formula specific to H2H That Happens to equal the results of the regular Str formula (I've tested on War axe, rogue dagger, and ranger bow)

Apparently not as obscure as I thought. Given the digression it's created, I'm not sure it was wise to footnote my post with that.

No, sir. It was one of the best footnote's I have ever seen. I wish all your posts had an encore.

I think it is well obscure... It is probably just a coincidence that you, Caliban and myself share either a.) a similar taste in films, b.) a knack for remembering lines and references or c.) a combination of both.

My question still wasn't fully answered. I was given a list of pros and cons, but I still don't know why a druid would use the golden blades over the trident. Could someone feel me in because to me the trident looks so much more appealing to a druid.

I think aleph went beyond what you could possibly ask for. Rather than tell you what to do, he gave you an excellent breakdown of the variables so that you could answer your own question. Part of the issue is that the question was vague, really, and he addressed that by saying something to the effect of "it depends on where your DPS is coming from." There are so many possible builds that there isn't a cookie-cutter answer.

It's like asking what I should get as a Hybrid Druid... Hybrid is remarkably vague: Skill Hybrid, Stat Hybrid, Equipment Hybrid, Play-style Hybrid, Internal Combustion/Electric Battery Hybrid?

As for the thinking for you part... perhaps the question was misread, but that is how I read it as well. In which case I question if it is not the question, rather than the reading of the question, which is in question.

I will digress to talk about something else... or rather recommend something else. Why not think about trying to buy a Golden Bodkin of Spirits from a player? At level 80 the Bodkin will still be a great addition (I use one at lvl 100+), you can save a lot of cash (can probably pick one up around 100k, as players want to upgrade), and it will give you a taste of the damage + regen.

Quick update on skills:

with +75 worth of rings of pugilism (h2h ability)
No weapon and all other damage gear: 2130 attack / 438 damage
Knuckleblades and all other damage gear: 2330 attack / 607 damage

with +75 worth or rings of daggers (dagger ability)
diamond dagger and all other damage gear: 2330 attack / 832 damage

Will analyze later, and perhaps integrate into my original data dump.