Celtic Heroes

Hence our massive skill dmg (rogues and rangers still beats us in dps BEFORE the nerf due to their auto dmg madness).

Now they nerfed our skills.

R u seriously suggesting rangers were/are better dps???
Just wow...

Not rangers but I got consistently out dps'd by rogues and dps druids before the nerf when mages were at their most powerful. And I had massive sigils so I have zero points into energy or health regen, it was all into DPS.

Hence our massive skill dmg (rogues and rangers still beats us in dps BEFORE the nerf due to their auto dmg madness).

Now they nerfed our skills.

R u seriously suggesting rangers were/are better dps???
Just wow...

Not rangers but I got consistently out dps'd by rogues and dps druids before the nerf when mages were at their most powerful. And I had massive sigils so I have zero points into energy or health regen, it was all into DPS.

There is no chance in hell dps druids can beat dps mages. We dont have lures, attunt and our dps skills cost a ton way more than mages. Nuff said.

[quote="fishgutz101]
R u seriously suggesting rangers were/are better dps???
Just wow...

Not rangers but I got consistently out dps'd by rogues and dps druids before the nerf when mages were at their most powerful. And I had massive sigils so I have zero points into energy or health regen, it was all into DPS.

There is no chance in hell dps druids can beat dps mages. We dont have lures, attunt and our dps skills cost a ton way more than mages. Nuff said.[/quote][/quote][/quote][/quote][/quote]

Guess you haven't tried it. The druid I consistently got out DPS'd by was 20 levels below me too.

Don't get me wrong, I play a druid now too. It's sad that they equalize mages after lures, lures don't give us any special advantage at all.

Are you kidding me?

The main reason why mages are awesome (less soloing) are due to their lures. Lures give mages a big advantage over other classes.

Taking warriors for an example, last update they really suck but with rupture now, they are doing considerable very decent to good dps.

Rogues, druids and Rangers will kill for a lure skill to have. This is your biggest advantage.

Are you kidding me?

The main reason why mages are awesome (less soloing) are due to their lures. Lures give mages a big advantage over other classes.

Taking warriors for an example, last update they really suck but with rupture now, they are doing considerable very decent to good dps.

Rogues, druids and Rangers will kill for a lure skill to have. This is your biggest advantage.

I understand your thinking but it's really not all that nice and easy. Lures are in fact our biggest weakness. We require a lure (and now attunement) to reach our maximum dps. After those two skills, that's it. There's no elixer to pop or unique trick up our sleeves. The elemental lure brings us up to the standards of other classes. The additional lures we have boost other classes past us.
There are other things to consider as well such as when the lure evades while leveling or when you happen to cast attunement right before you die. Mages have these skills that boost the damage to the standard so losing them means we lose kills, die from a mob, etc.

Are you kidding me?

The main reason why mages are awesome (less soloing) are due to their lures. Lures give mages a big advantage over other classes.

Taking warriors for an example, last update they really suck but with rupture now, they are doing considerable very decent to good dps.

Rogues, druids and Rangers will kill for a lure skill to have. This is your biggest advantage.

I understand your thinking but it's really not all that nice and easy. Lures are in fact our biggest weakness. We require a lure (and now attunement) to reach our maximum dps. After those two skills, that's it. There's no elixer to pop or unique trick up our sleeves. The elemental lure brings us up to the standards of other classes. The additional lures we have boost other classes past us.
There are other things to consider as well such as when the lure evades while leveling or when you happen to cast attunement right before you die. Mages have these skills that boost the damage to the standard so losing them means we lose kills, die from a mob, etc.

I agree totally what you said but my comment is really more on Midi's comment. druids will never beat mages due to the following:

1) Strike and Storm touch is the same dmg as Bolt and Shards (Without lures ofc)
2) Granted we have vines but we suffer heavily from Damage Fluct and mobs resistance whereas mages is just damage fluct
3) Mages have 20% casting speed/ or cooling bonus last update whereas druids don't.
4) Our energy cost a ton more than mages. Storm touch is double of ice shards for instance.
5) Same as mages, we don't have exliers to pop or unique tricks as well, if our dmg skills get evaded (Esp storm) we suffer energy cost and a longer cool down for a less amount of dmg without lures.

With these 5 points, I really don't see how druids can beat mages and its not fair for Midi making such accusations at druids.

Are you kidding me?

The main reason why mages are awesome (less soloing) are due to their lures. Lures give mages a big advantage over other classes.

Taking warriors for an example, last update they really suck but with rupture now, they are doing considerable very decent to good dps.

Rogues, druids and Rangers will kill for a lure skill to have. This is your biggest advantage.

I understand your thinking but it's really not all that nice and easy. Lures are in fact our biggest weakness. We require a lure (and now attunement) to reach our maximum dps. After those two skills, that's it. There's no elixer to pop or unique trick up our sleeves. The elemental lure brings us up to the standards of other classes. The additional lures we have boost other classes past us.
There are other things to consider as well such as when the lure evades while leveling or when you happen to cast attunement right before you die. Mages have these skills that boost the damage to the standard so losing them means we lose kills, die from a mob, etc.

I agree totally what you said but my comment is really more on Midi's comment. druids will never beat mages due to the following:

1) Strike and Storm touch is the same dmg as Bolt and Shards (Without lures ofc)
2) Granted we have vines but we suffer heavily from Damage Fluct and mobs resistance whereas mages is just damage fluct
3) Mages have 20% casting speed/ or cooling bonus last update whereas druids don't.
4) Our energy cost a ton more than mages. Storm touch is double of ice shards for instance.
5) Same as mages, we don't have exliers to pop or unique tricks as well, if our dmg skills get evaded (Esp storm) we suffer energy cost and a longer cool down for a less amount of dmg without lures.

With these 5 points, I really don't see how druids can beat mages and its not fair for Midi making such accusations at druids.

I don't play druid much but according what you said and what i've seen, both mage and druid's dps is based on skills so if mage spend 30 skill points to 1 lure (around -710 an elemental resistance) whilst druid spend 30 points to a dps skill (dmg around 2-3K) -> druid win in most of short fights and equal in long fights depends on luck whoever have more succesful hits will win, the only benefit of lure is energy saving and it may give other classes benefit as well

My conclusions:
- Druid is soloable but not meant to be DPS other wise u'll surfer energy regen cost (pots, sigil)
- Druid has grest surviveability and can support others
- Mage is meant to be DPS and good at DPS and can also support other DPS but has poorest surviveability (idol hunger)
- If mage die during battle, surfer attutement cool down time (2mins) means 30% less dps until attutement back on
- Rogue has good dps skills even though mage and druid/s skills r better but rogue's auto attack is almost as good DPS as their skills and rogue can regularly get benefits from other classes such as shutter and lures so Rogue is simply the best DPS
- Worrior is not bad DPS and have great armor
- Worrior is the grest tank and safest class (cheapest to play) lol
- Ranger hmm i used to think ranger is a great class to play but so many complains recently so i have no idea lol

@Morphmarfa
Oh sorry, I misunderstood your response I guess. My general conclusion is that Druids and Mages are basically in the same boat of trouble for many of these things. Minus the energy problems of course. Caster life just seems so stressful these days and the melee classes seem to be making it through quite fine. *Sad sigh*

I have actually been beaten by a Druid for dps while there was a lure of magic up so a Mage will have more dps on a normal basis but a lure does bring a Druid past a Mage. It actually happens quite frequently but people fear the OTM nerf gun.

In answer to your points:
1) Mages are forced into a pure firemage for pure icemage build. The combinations are firestorm/firebolt and Ice blast/Ice shards respectively. The rest of the skill points are divided amongst the appropriate lure, attunement, and then eboost. Mages with enough sigils can substitute eboost for usually eshield or one of the dot skills. Comparing hits would not be accurate since damage is dealed out in different casting times.
2) I don't understand suffering from resistances as it was intended to keep your dps down but I guess it's a Druid thing I wouldn't understand... I don't know about the firemage but with an icemage, fluctuations are a hell of a lot worse than a Druids. My Ice blast usually varies from 9k to 4k (Lowest ever was 3.9k with attunement and lure) and Ice shards varies from 8k to 3k. You can ask around on my server, I seriously have those fluctuations and it's a nightmare.
3) Hmm, ya that was a tad of luck and hope. I supposed it would be nice for that to be applied to Druid skills like Natures touch, breath, etc. That would be fair considering what these bosses do now.
4) I can't exactly compare energy costs but if you go to the following link you can take a look at my energy costs. I suppose Mages at least have eboost while druids need sigils or rest with meditate.
http://www.celtic-heroes.com/forum/view ... 20#p282143
5) Yep, this is the caster pit of despair. However I only have two damage skills to use in a build. If one evades, I die. I mean, I literally wait while a mob 10 levels below me tears through my health and my skills are forever loading.

I guess I basically just repeated firehead... I answered the points though.

+1 agree completly

@Morphmarfa
Oh sorry, I misunderstood your response I guess. My general conclusion is that Druids and Mages are basically in the same boat of trouble for many of these things. Minus the energy problems of course. Caster life just seems so stressful these days and the melee classes seem to be making it through quite fine. *Sad sigh*

I have actually been beaten by a Druid for dps while there was a lure of magic up so a Mage will have more dps on a normal basis but a lure does bring a Druid past a Mage. It actually happens quite frequently but people fear the OTM nerf gun.

In answer to your points:
1) Mages are forced into a pure firemage for pure icemage build. The combinations are firestorm/firebolt and Ice blast/Ice shards respectively. The rest of the skill points are divided amongst the appropriate lure, attunement, and then eboost. Mages with enough sigils can substitute eboost for usually eshield or one of the dot skills. Comparing hits would not be accurate since damage is dealed out in different casting times.
2) I don't understand suffering from resistances as it was intended to keep your dps down but I guess it's a Druid thing I wouldn't understand... I don't know about the firemage but with an icemage, fluctuations are a hell of a lot worse than a Druids. My Ice blast usually varies from 9k to 4k (Lowest ever was 3.9k with attunement and lure) and Ice shards varies from 8k to 3k. You can ask around on my server, I seriously have those fluctuations and it's a nightmare.
3) Hmm, ya that was a tad of luck and hope. I supposed it would be nice for that to be applied to Druid skills like Natures touch, breath, etc. That would be fair considering what these bosses do now.
4) I can't exactly compare energy costs but if you go to the following link you can take a look at my energy costs. I suppose Mages at least have eboost while druids need sigils or rest with meditate.
http://www.celtic-heroes.com/forum/view ... 20#p282143
5) Yep, this is the caster pit of despair. However I only have two damage skills to use in a build. If one evades, I die. I mean, I literally wait while a mob 10 levels below me tears through my health and my skills are forever loading.

I guess I basically just repeated firehead... I answered the points though.

All good mate, I don't mind a good debate as long as its portraits truth and not wrong accusations of our classes.

1) This point was more towards saying strike vs fire bolt, storm touch vs ice shards has the same / close damage on skill description page only. Factor in lures, attuntment and the free *caster gloves* mages got last update, Strike and storm will get knocked over silly no matter how u look at it. For instance, on a fire mage build, fire bolts (3k-4k) trashes Strike (1k - 2k), should the mage decide to use ice shards it still wins storm touch due to 20% casting bonus.
2) I totally feel your pain on fluctuations but my point again was this. My strike on skill page is 4k damage. Due to 50% fluctuation, it has the potential to deal 2k dmg only. Factor in mob magic resistance, it has another potential to take away 15% - 30% (Random guess). This is why I am usually dealing 1400 odd dmg on my strike despite having 4k skill page description. Mages also suffer due to 50% fluctuation, all classes do but at least you get to subtract mob resistance potential whereas druids/rangers/rogues have to feel the full weight of mob resistance.
3) Don't get me wrong on this, I am happy for mages with the casting bonus. I am purely bring this up for argument topic on midis comment
4) If you go to druids forums, Sidi or Peri (I think) actually posted the energy cost on all classes skills. Granted strike and bolt is similar cost , I kid you not when I say storm touch is double of ice shards. a lv 35 shards is about 500? Well a lv 35 storm is about 1k. etc
5) Same pit of despair indeed.

In terms of you being beaten by a druid, my stance is you got beaten by a dps druid with a support mage. So its kind of different