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Re: A Discussion About Religion: The [Threequel]

#621
The following link clears up some misconceptions regarding evolution.

http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evolibrar ... ns_faq.php
Serious flaw here:
MISCONCEPTION: Evolution and religion are incompatible.

CORRECTION: Because of some individuals and groups stridently declaring their beliefs, it's easy to get the impression that science (which includes evolution) and religion are at war; however, the idea that one always has to choose between science and religion is incorrect. People of many different faiths and levels of scientific expertise see no contradiction at all between science and religion. For many of these people, science and religion simply deal with different realms. Science deals with natural causes for natural phenomena, while religion deals with beliefs that are beyond the natural world.

Of course, some religious beliefs explicitly contradict science (e.g., the belief that the world and all life on it was created in six literal days does conflict with evolutionary theory); however, most religious groups have no conflict with the theory of evolution or other scientific findings. In fact, many religious people, including theologians, feel that a deeper understanding of nature actually enriches their faith. Moreover, in the scientific community there are thousands of scientists who are devoutly religious and also accept evolution. For concise statements from many religious organizations regarding evolution, see Voices for Evolution on the NCSE website. To learn more about the relationship between science and religion, visit the Understanding Science website.
They need to man up and more explicitly say that when your fairy tale mythology flies in the face of facts and evidence the myth is proven out to be what it really is - just a figment of a misguided mind with no basis in reality.

It should read:
Correction:
When religion accepts facts first and inserts thier supernatural belief into the gaps of knowledge then that is marginally acceptable. When those gaps are reduced by mounting evidence and facts the supernatural that previously occupied them must be thrown away. Failure to do so results in harm to the disbeliever in reality and those whom thier actions affect. This harm is proportional to the extent of thier disbelief because without understanding reality they cannot influence it in a rational way that is to thier actual intent and benefit.
People take the whole PC thing way to far on this. You can't simply let it go as there are pretty harmful reprocussions from reality denial that include copious amounts of needless suffering and deaths.
Eh, the correction only included what was incorrect. I do not think that they were focused on the effects of believing the misconception.
The correction I provided dosent dance around the myths before facts problem facing our societies. Original correction provided in the link says the same thing essentially (though not the reprocussions part true) but is far too politically correct on the matter. Notice how they say things like "deeper understanding of nature" and "Science deals with natural causes for natural phenomena, while religion deals with beliefs that are beyond the natural world.". The last quote isn't even true because if there were any evidence for supernatural things it could be approached scientifically - such as if prayer actually did help people recover instead of being a 100% fail. They say "beliefs" which is a codeword for making up stuff with no basis in reality.


I think it is important to mention what happens when people don't understand what is real because it is a commonly held myth that make believing reality, such as actually believing in religion, is not harmful.
Last edited by Plus3 on Thu Apr 10, 2014 4:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: A Discussion About Religion: The [Threequel]

#623
The tailbone is very important actually. It acts as a support when we sit. It also helps us defecate. I think that it is also important because it is an attachment for muscles? Anyhow, that is an important part of our bodies.

The "gills": http://musom.marshall.edu/anatomy/gross ... branc.html
Ya... Fish also have these arches as embryos and they become gills. Therefore, they are in fact gills, or at least the developing gills, in the human embryo.
Image

Re: A Discussion About Religion: The [Threequel]

#624
I know I am not Magixal but I will still answer with some basic proof. The two most convincing evidence, in my opinion, are embryonic comparisons and vestigial structures.

Embryonic comparisons:
Image
Human embryos also have gills, which disappear later on.

Vestigial structures:
Human tailbone. Useless yet we still have it. It neither harms nor benefits us but indicates an ancestor with a tail (apes).
Image
Pelvis and femur in whales. Aka leg bones. That would indicate they may have descended from a land animal.
Image
The pictures are meant to give you an idea. You can look up the actual real pictures and find the vestigial structures and compare embryos.

It is also important to remember we still use fossils, dating, genetics, and behaviour.
The tailbone is very important actually. It acts as a support when we sit. It also helps us defecate. I think that it is also important because it is an attachment for muscles? Anyhow, that is an important part of our bodies. I'll edit this in the morning to add more.
Yes and the gills help babies breathe in the womb and the tail helps them too! This is just evidence that creatures with tails and creatures with gills had the same creator duh!! God let Satan manifest them in embryos to decieve us from the true path of God!!!!!1!1!!1!!!!!!!!

When will you lying athiest sinners wise up and start giving a ton your money to the church!!! He may be all powerful all knowing and all seeing but he (yes god is a man) is just bad with money!!!
Plus3, are you ok? I understand these topics can be stressful to some, but please, calm down.
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Re: A Discussion About Religion: The [Threequel]

#625
Magixal, Vraelan, and Plus3, I have to resign from posting on this topic anymore, because of this verse that I came across:

"And whosoever will not receive you, when ye go out of that city, shake off the very dust from your feet for a testimony against them."

I have been disobeying this passage obviously. I knew in my heart something was not right about what I was doing, and now this verse has revealed it to me.

You may count this as what you want, a victory, a fleeing on my part, but really, I have given up on the thread, doesn't mean I have given up on you all. I'll be praying often that you have revelations in your lives, but I can not keep disputing, because it is obviously against my beliefs. I really haven't given up, I am only walking away.

This is a very tough decision, but I have to teach myself to walk away from these things. I have had a great time spreading the Gospel here, but I am needed in other places too that I haven't adhered myself. Solumbum, you have also been on this topic for a while, so I encourage you to consider this verse.

Christianity is hand in hand with science, not against it.

Farewell. Really, I do hope you all do.
x*Warrior Tank*x
x*Arawn*x
x*BadaBing*x

Critical thinking greatly intrigues me.

Re: A Discussion About Religion: The [Threequel]

#626
Magixal, Vraelan, and Plus3, I have to resign from posting on this topic anymore, because of this verse that I came across:

"And whosoever will not receive you, when ye go out of that city, shake off the very dust from your feet for a testimony against them."

I have been disobeying this passage obviously. I knew in my heart something was not right about what I was doing, and now this verse has revealed it to me.

You may count this as what you want, a victory, a fleeing on my part, but really, I have given up on the thread, doesn't mean I have given up on you all. I'll be praying often that you have revelations in your lives, but I can not keep disputing, because it is obviously against my beliefs. I really haven't given up, I am only walking away.

This is a very tough decision, but I have to teach myself to walk away from these things. I have had a great time spreading the Gospel here, but I am needed in other places too that I haven't adhered myself. Solumbum, you have also been on this topic for a while, so I encourage you to consider this verse.

Christianity is hand in hand with science, not against it.

Farewell. Really, I do hope you all do.
I do not understand how that quote would direct you to walk away. I can only conclude that the recent logic and evidence was overwhelming enough to invoke a desire to escape and not face a harsher world.

My overall goal was to get everyone to doubt and increase the flexibility to change. I think that was somewhat accomplished.

Christianity is not hand in hand with science, nor is it against science. It really just depends on perspective and interpretation.

This is however where my support of the necessity of death comes in. Eventually, even as parents try to hold on to and pass along religion, the amount of ever growing evidence will be incontrovertible.

Good luck in life and may humanity forever progress.
Image

Re: A Discussion About Religion: The [Threequel]

#627
Yes and the gills help babies breathe in the womb and the tail helps them too! This is just evidence that creatures with tails and creatures with gills had the same creator duh!! God let Satan manifest them in embryos to decieve us from the true path of God!!!!!1!1!!1!!!!!!!!

When will you lying athiest sinners wise up and start giving a ton your money to the church!!! He may be all powerful all knowing and all seeing but he (yes god is a man) is just bad with money!!!
A bit about the gills argument:

A foetus does not need to breathe in utero. We only breathe so we can expel carbon dioxide from our blood and absorb oxygen into our blood so our cells can respire. A foetus gets its oxygen from the mother (as foetal haemoglobin has a greater oxygen affinity than adult Hb). The waste is also transferred via the placenta to the mother. In fact, the foetus has special shunts called the foramen ovalis and the ductus arteriosum which shunt blood AWAY from the lungs. These close off at birth, and are the reason for a hole in the heart or coarctation of the aorta respectively. Gills are not used for breathing.
Image


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Re: A Discussion About Religion: The [Threequel]

#628
Magixal, Vraelan, and Plus3, I have to resign from posting on this topic anymore, because of this verse that I came across:

"And whosoever will not receive you, when ye go out of that city, shake off the very dust from your feet for a testimony against them."

I have been disobeying this passage obviously. I knew in my heart something was not right about what I was doing, and now this verse has revealed it to me.

You may count this as what you want, a victory, a fleeing on my part, but really, I have given up on the thread, doesn't mean I have given up on you all. I'll be praying often that you have revelations in your lives, but I can not keep disputing, because it is obviously against my beliefs. I really haven't given up, I am only walking away.

This is a very tough decision, but I have to teach myself to walk away from these things. I have had a great time spreading the Gospel here, but I am needed in other places too that I haven't adhered myself. Solumbum, you have also been on this topic for a while, so I encourage you to consider this verse.

Christianity is hand in hand with science, not against it.

Farewell. Really, I do hope you all do.
I do not understand how that quote would direct you to walk away. I can only conclude that the recent logic and evidence was overwhelming enough to invoke a desire to escape and not face a harsher world.

My overall goal was to get everyone to doubt and increase the flexibility to change. I think that was somewhat accomplished.

Christianity is not hand in hand with science, nor is it against science. It really just depends on perspective and interpretation.

This is however where my support of the necessity of death comes in. Eventually, even as parents try to hold on to and pass along religion, the amount of ever growing evidence will be incontrovertible.

Good luck in life and may humanity forever progress.
Ok vraelen, while that particular verse may not be referring to this kind of thing(was a command to Jesus' disciples when He sent them to spread the word), there are others that I could easily find that say that. One common misunderstanding are two verses that seemingly say the opposite things. One says answer a fool according to his folly and the other says not to. They are referring to different instances. Sometimes its better to be quiet, while other times we should speak up. If aggra thinks its his time to be quiet, thats fine. I can respect that.
Psalm 46:10 He says, "Be still, and know that I am God; I will be exalted among the nations, I will be exalted in the earth."

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Proud Clansman of Divergent

Re: A Discussion About Religion: The [Threequel]

#629
Also if you were trying to spread doubt, you have not scratched my defenses hehe.

I have been thinking about quitting this topic for a while(i doubt I will though). Im tired of going in circles. We argue one thing and before i have time to formulate a reply, we have jumped to another. This topic is also a bit frustrating at times. I don't especially like the attitude some people have towards Christians. Honestly, O think that is the debate we should have first: what is a true Christian? Because i cnt argue for the Catholics, Mormons, jahovah witness, etc. i don't agree with them and can debate them. Also, while I do kinda like being able to debate with writing, I don't like having to debate everyone who wants to pipe in. I would rather do one-on-one. Also, ill admit, sometimes I don't know what you guys are talking about(that also gets annoying as I know there is an explanation somewhere, but as I don't know what your talking about...). This has been an interesting thread. But it used to be be a lot better when we were actually debating. Also i had more time then.
Psalm 46:10 He says, "Be still, and know that I am God; I will be exalted among the nations, I will be exalted in the earth."

Solumbum-200
WeldenS-36
BlodgarmS-35
EragonS-27

Junior Journalist of the Dal Riata Daily Enquirer

Proud Clansman of Divergent

Re: A Discussion About Religion: The [Threequel]

#630
Also if you were trying to spread doubt, you have not scratched my defenses hehe.

I have been thinking about quitting this topic for a while(i doubt I will though). Im tired of going in circles. We argue one thing and before i have time to formulate a reply, we have jumped to another. This topic is also a bit frustrating at times. I don't especially like the attitude some people have towards Christians. Honestly, O think that is the debate we should have first: what is a true Christian? Because i cnt argue for the Catholics, Mormons, jahovah witness, etc. i don't agree with them and can debate them. Also, while I do kinda like being able to debate with writing, I don't like having to debate everyone who wants to pipe in. I would rather do one-on-one. Also, ill admit, sometimes I don't know what you guys are talking about(that also gets annoying as I know there is an explanation somewhere, but as I don't know what your talking about...). This has been an interesting thread. But it used to be be a lot better when we were actually debating. Also i had more time then.
If you don't understand use google, no wonder you and most Christians veer for the easy way out, but now there is the resource so you don't have to.

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