Celtic Heroes

Less an impression of what I think an atheist's life must be and more my personal experience. I was not trying to say that atheists have no reason for existence.

Ah, in that case I understand your post a little more clearly. If you are talking about questioning your own beliefs, then it is a matter of also looking at the larger picture... people aware of stages tend to progress through them with less difficulty. For some people, I am sure there can be dark moments.

As far as your link, you must realize that you are very fortunate to have a functional family and you are as fortunate to have a child that loves as your child is fortunate to have a father who loves him. Many, if not most lives on this planet are not as happy as yours.

I certainly am fortunate, yes. And I am very aware of it.

I used it as an example to illustrate a point . At the time I wrote it, I didn't pick up on the esoteric nature of your post, and misread it as a stereotype of atheists. If it helps you, however, please feel free to use it as a springboard of encouragement.

But perhaps I am thinking too deeply and I should not dwell on my significance or the meaning of life or how so few are happy since it only depresses me.

Remember of course that significance is relative. In the small ecosystem of your family and friends, I can assure you that your significance is massive to those around you.

As for depression based on the unhappiness of others... that can happen, yes. It is quite common for young adults to go through that when the world opens up to them. Again, it can be used as a springboard for you to make the best of.

I am understanding more and more how ignorance is bliss.

Indeed. I would hamper a guess that many an atheist has tried to regain the belief in God.

In that regard, Genesis and the older Mesopotamian creation myths that it was based upon are quite accurate.

In the qur'an, a book that has not been altered even a word since the day it was revealed(couple thousand years ago) god says:
(51:56)"And I did not create the jinn and mankind except to worship Me."

(55:13) "so Which of these favours of your lord will you deny?"

I've never been able to understand why Muslims say this... other than to do otherwise would nullify Islam's own necessity.

I think changing the order of the "revelations" constitutes an alteration. It might be better to say that the Quran hasn't changed much since it was "canonized" circa 700 CE. Even that isn't terribly accurate, from what I understand, as there are two versions of the Quran commonly used today.


I'm not sure I follow the relevance of your quotes.

In the qur'an, a book that has not been altered even a word since the day it was revealed(couple thousand years ago) god says:
(51:56)"And I did not create the jinn and mankind except to worship Me."

(55:13) "so Which of these favours of your lord will you deny?"

I've never been able to understand why Muslims say this... other than to do otherwise would nullify Islam's own necessity.

I think changing the order of the "revelations" constitutes an alteration. It might be better to say that the Quran hasn't changed much since it was "canonized" circa 700 CE. Even that isn't terribly accurate, from what I understand, as there are two versions of the Quran commonly used today.


I'm not sure I follow the relevance of your quotes.

The original qur'an has not been altered even a word. The only variations of the Quran you will find are the number of lines on each page, (13 or 15, I believe), if it is colour coded according to the rules of tajweed, or which type of font it is written in (urdu, arabic, uthmani, etc.)

In the qur'an, a book that has not been altered even a word since the day it was revealed(couple thousand years ago) god says:
(51:56)"And I did not create the jinn and mankind except to worship Me."

(55:13) "so Which of these favours of your lord will you deny?"

I've never been able to understand why Muslims say this... other than to do otherwise would nullify Islam's own necessity.

I think changing the order of the "revelations" constitutes an alteration. It might be better to say that the Quran hasn't changed much since it was "canonized" circa 700 CE. Even that isn't terribly accurate, from what I understand, as there are two versions of the Quran commonly used today.


I'm not sure I follow the relevance of your quotes.

The original qur'an has not been altered even a word. The only variations of the Quran you will find are the number of lines on each page, (13 or 15, I believe), if it is colour coded according to the rules of tajweed, or which type of font it is written in (urdu, arabic, uthmani, etc.)

Erm, if you have to use the word "original," then it must have been changed...

In the qur'an, a book that has not been altered even a word since the day it was revealed(couple thousand years ago) god says:
(51:56)"And I did not create the jinn and mankind except to worship Me."

(55:13) "so Which of these favours of your lord will you deny?"

I've never been able to understand why Muslims say this... other than to do otherwise would nullify Islam's own necessity.

I think changing the order of the "revelations" constitutes an alteration. It might be better to say that the Quran hasn't changed much since it was "canonized" circa 700 CE. Even that isn't terribly accurate, from what I understand, as there are two versions of the Quran commonly used today.


I'm not sure I follow the relevance of your quotes.

The original qur'an has not been altered even a word. The only variations of the Quran you will find are the number of lines on each page, (13 or 15, I believe), if it is colour coded according to the rules of tajweed, or which type of font it is written in (urdu, arabic, uthmani, etc.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quran
Read that you may learn something.

The original qur'an has not been altered even a word. The only variations of the Quran you will find are the number of lines on each page, (13 or 15, I believe), if it is colour coded according to the rules of tajweed, or which type of font it is written in (urdu, arabic, uthmani, etc.)

Well that is simply incorrect. I don't doubt that that is what you have been told, but it isn't evidenced in reality.

All you have to do is pick up two versions of the Quran to find the alterations. Here is a site that looks at the differences found in two versions (Imam Hafs and Imam Warsh).

Now I can't read Arabic... but I trust that the author of that site can. He lists several variants in the two versions, some are instances of dialect, and in some cases they use different words which alter the meaning of a sentence.

So the whole "not even a word has been altered" idea is out the window.

But that isn't what I was really talking about. That is somewhat minor, as far as I am concerned, and is why I said "it hasn't changed much since it was "canonized" circa 700 CE."

It was altered drastically at that point, as the order was changed based on the length of the chapter (longest to shortest, if I recall correctly) rather than in chronological order, as well as some other changes. This is why what was "revealed" first to Mohammed is about chapter 100, while the last "revelation" to Mohammed is about chapter 5.

If that doesn't constitute an alteration in your eyes, then I'm not sure what would.

I've never been able to understand why Muslims say this... other than to do otherwise would nullify Islam's own necessity.

I think changing the order of the "revelations" constitutes an alteration. It might be better to say that the Quran hasn't changed much since it was "canonized" circa 700 CE. Even that isn't terribly accurate, from what I understand, as there are two versions of the Quran commonly used today.


I'm not sure I follow the relevance of your quotes.[/quote]

The original qur'an has not been altered even a word. The only variations of the Quran you will find are the number of lines on each page, (13 or 15, I believe), if it is colour coded according to the rules of tajweed, or which type of font it is written in (urdu, arabic, uthmani, etc.)[/quote]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quran
Read that you may learn something.[/quote]


I'm sorry, but giving me a Wikipedia link isnt going to change my mind.

The original qur'an has not been altered even a word. The only variations of the Quran you will find are the number of lines on each page, (13 or 15, I believe), if it is colour coded according to the rules of tajweed, or which type of font it is written in (urdu, arabic, uthmani, etc.)

Well that is simply incorrect. I don't doubt that that is what you have been told, but it isn't evidenced in reality.

All you have to do is pick up two versions of the Quran to find the alterations. Here is a site that looks at the differences found in two versions (Imam Hafs and Imam Warsh).

Now I can't read Arabic... but I trust that the author of that site can. He lists several variants in the two versions, some are instances of dialect, and in some cases they use different words which alter the meaning of a sentence.

So the whole "not even a word has been altered" idea is out the window.

But that isn't what I was really talking about. That is somewhat minor, as far as I am concerned, and is why I said "it hasn't changed much since it was "canonized" circa 700 CE."

It was altered drastically at that point, as the order was changed based on the length of the chapter (longest to shortest, if I recall correctly) rather than in chronological order, as well as some other changes. This is why what was "revealed" first to Mohammed is about chapter 100, while the last "revelation" to Mohammed is about chapter 5.

If that doesn't constitute an alteration in your eyes, then I'm not sure what would.

If you look at the words, the root of the word is the same. Although, I don't believe that there are changes like this but thats just because I haven't read in those types of the Quran. If you go to any place, pick up 5 qurans, open any surah/ayah, you will find the exact same thing written there on all 5.

That's all,
I am done posting here.

I'm sorry, but giving me a Wikipedia link isnt going to change my mind.

If you look at the words, the root of the word is the same. Although, I don't believe that there are changes like this but thats just because I haven't read in those types of the Quran. If you go to any place, pick up 5 qurans, open any surah/ayah, you will find the exact same thing written there on all 5.

That's all,
I am done posting here.

Yep go ahead and disbelieve in facts and reality. Squint your brain and disbelieve. That dosent change the fact there are in fact many versions - including changing the entire intent/meaning of the verse not just being a variant of the root word or difference in dialect. Not really surprising considering it is man made and 7th century Arabic didn't have a written language that was exact but rather was quite crude. If Muslim scholars can't all agree on which is original or correct that should be a clue.

Try actually reading either link or the many many very similar ones that come up with a simple search. Though I guess I can't blame you too much with the offical punishment for apostasy being death.

I'm sorry, but giving me a Wikipedia link isnt going to change my mind.

If you look at the words, the root of the word is the same. Although, I don't believe that there are changes like this but thats just because I haven't read in those types of the Quran. If you go to any place, pick up 5 qurans, open any surah/ayah, you will find the exact same thing written there on all 5.

That's all,
I am done posting here.

Yep go ahead and disbelieve in facts and reality. Squint your brain and disbelieve. That dosent change the fact there are in fact many versions - including changing the entire intent/meaning of the verse not just being a variant of the root word or difference in dialect. Not really surprising considering it is man made and 7th century Arabic didn't have a written language that was exact but rather was quite crude. If Muslim scholars can't all agree on which is original or correct that should be a clue.

Try actually reading either link or the many many very similar ones that come up with a simple search. Though I guess I can't blame you too much with the offical punishment for apostasy being death.

Well, I don't know about you but when I see this thread I see 'a discussion about religion', not 'my religion is the best, fk you all'

I have no idea what you are saying by the Arabic in the Quran day being man made. Maybe its time you got off your high horse and actually read something about Islam rather than google searching 'how to bash Islam'

Now I am done here

I'm sorry, but giving me a Wikipedia link isnt going to change my mind.

If you look at the words, the root of the word is the same. Although, I don't believe that there are changes like this but thats just because I haven't read in those types of the Quran. If you go to any place, pick up 5 qurans, open any surah/ayah, you will find the exact same thing written there on all 5.

That's all,
I am done posting here.

Yep go ahead and disbelieve in facts and reality. Squint your brain and disbelieve. That dosent change the fact there are in fact many versions - including changing the entire intent/meaning of the verse not just being a variant of the root word or difference in dialect. Not really surprising considering it is man made and 7th century Arabic didn't have a written language that was exact but rather was quite crude. If Muslim scholars can't all agree on which is original or correct that should be a clue.

Try actually reading either link or the many many very similar ones that come up with a simple search. Though I guess I can't blame you too much with the offical punishment for apostasy being death.

Well, I don't know about you but when I see this thread I see 'a discussion about religion', not 'my religion is the best, fk you all'

I have no idea what you are saying by the Arabic in the Quran day being man made. Maybe its time you got off your high horse and actually read something about Islam rather than google searching 'how to bash Islam'

Now I am done here

It was written down by men in any account. Obviously man made. And where did I post that my 'religion' is best?

If you make claims about reality, such as all quaran are identical with no 'versions' be prepared for facts to be presented. It dosent help that you didn't even read any information either.