Celtic Heroes

Don't let this topic die D:

Most if not all of the founding fathers for the US were deists... I would imagine if they were anything more, the US would be a Christian nation right now.

Freedom of religion is the ability to practise whatever belief you want but out of the public. That basically applies to any belief, athiests and Christians. What plus3 is saying is that we should not make laws based on if god exists or not but rather what the direct impact will be on a nation no matter what.

So for abortion, we should not be thinking: 'Oh no, do it and we will sin' or 'Pfft, there is no god, let's do the opposite of whatever religion says.' We should actually consider the effect on our society seeing as how we can all agree that, free will or otherwise, is on its own.

America was founded by the rejected Protestants of Catholic Europe, because their beliefs were not allowed there at that time. To practice our beliefs in private would be absolutely the same thing. This also means we must break our beliefs by keeping the salvation of the world inside of ourselves instead of educating individuals with the message. Remember that freedom from religion or Christianity is not the same thing as freedom of religion or Christianity.

Ok, let's put this into perspective...

Think of people who believe a person requires no clothes. That is a belief that they do not go about practising in public. However, they are allowed to gather in certain semi public areas such as nudist beaches, churches, dwellings, etc. The best part of this compromise is that naked or not, decisions are still made that do no reflect that decision and life goes on.

Compare practising a specific religion to nudism. You have the right to your own beliefs and practises in private. Private beaches, churches, schools. your own home, etc.

I hope that example was not too vulgar...

I understand your analogy perfectly, but what you have not grasped is that America is our refuge.

In reply to Dersu: I am sorry. I admit that I had typed that message lazily late at night. Please disregard all, thank you.

Someone said they have proof of the Big Bang what a joke. Like the first comment said there is proof of God's existence you just have to open your eyes to find them.

Someone said they have proof of the Big Bang what a joke. Like the first comment said there is proof of God's existence you just have to open your eyes to find them.

Open your eyes wider and you will begin to see the resemblance between the major religions and Santa clause.

I understand your analogy perfectly, but what you have not grasped is that America is our refuge.

The US is not the only place in the world to safely practise multiple religions and it certainly was not founded for the sole purpose of expressing religion everywhere. You may pray in public, talk about religion, host discussions, etc but the main point is that you keep it to yourselves (close family, friends, etc) and do not let your beliefs have too great a influence over politics or decisions that impact people with varying beliefs.

Someone said they have proof of the Big Bang what a joke. Like the first comment said there is proof of God's existence you just have to open your eyes to find them.

Open your eyes wider and you will begin to see the resemblance between the major religions and Santa clause.

I understand your analogy perfectly, but what you have not grasped is that America is our refuge.

The US is not the only place in the world to safely practise multiple religions and it certainly was not founded for the sole purpose of expressing religion everywhere. You may pray in public, talk about religion, host discussions, etc but the main point is that you keep it to yourselves (close family, friends, etc) and do not let your beliefs have too great a influence over politics or decisions that impact people with varying beliefs.

So i cn pray, talk about my beliefs, and hold discussions, but i have to keep my religion to myself and close friends.
Do u see the problem here? And uh, of course if i believe that abortion is wrong im going to vote agaisnt it. I am goin to make decisions by what i believe; i doubt there are many who would say otherwise.

Dang! it would take me all day too read this! I'm just happy people are being polite. Its also nice to learn more about other religions!

Dang! it would take me all day too read this! I'm just happy people are being polite. Its also nice to learn more about other religions!

I find it amazing that after all these pages everyone still civil enough to keep it unlocked

Dang! it would take me all day too read this! I'm just happy people are being polite. Its also nice to learn more about other religions!

I find it amazing that after all these pages everyone still civil enough to keep it unlocked

I agree.

Someone said they have proof of the Big Bang what a joke. Like the first comment said there is proof of God's existence you just have to open your eyes to find them.

Open your eyes wider and you will begin to see the resemblance between the major religions and Santa clause.

I understand your analogy perfectly, but what you have not grasped is that America is our refuge.

The US is not the only place in the world to safely practise multiple religions and it certainly was not founded for the sole purpose of expressing religion everywhere. You may pray in public, talk about religion, host discussions, etc but the main point is that you keep it to yourselves (close family, friends, etc) and do not let your beliefs have too great a influence over politics or decisions that impact people with varying beliefs.

So i cn pray, talk about my beliefs, and hold discussions, but i have to keep my religion to myself and close friends.
Do u see the problem here? And uh, of course if i believe that abortion is wrong im going to vote agaisnt it. I am goin to make decisions by what i believe; i doubt there are many who would say otherwise.

Well... I find it rather annoying when people come up to you and say "save your soul, give your earthly possessions to this church" or "You are doomed to [insert some bad place] if you don't believe [insert religion] blah blah."

I for one do not go around saying you are doomed to some terrible fate for a different view on the world and unless specifically asked (or perhaps making a book, movie,etc), I will not share my own views. I find that such controversial ideas, that lack solid evidence for other side, are meant to be discovered on your own and not forced on you.

Regarding how you vote... Just try and think, do you really have the right to make that decision, so personal and private, for someone else. Some things may need a forced decision for others such as guns and drugs but I have not heard one valid argument for how abortion negatively impacts our society. Derailing our "traditional" values and morals is not a valid enough argument.

My belief is that you should vote for society and not yourself but the real problem with religious politics is that things like abortion are up for voting and not a simple (perhaps semi managed) right. Voting against abortion because you do not like it is like forcing other people not to eat donuts because you are on a diet.

On a side note, that debate with bill nye at the creationist museum happened... I need to find the vid for it. Grr... Until then.

Bill nye should have read this thread or perhaps just been better at researching how these types of debates work. Bill is a great guy and does a lot for science. He knows a fair bit about it even if evolutionary biology isn't his focus.

Bill made a big mistake though. He actually debated that idiot and made the whole thing seem like a legitimate debatable subject. He brought facts to a crazy fight and appealed to people's sense of logical reason that has been bound since birth having been malformed into a grotesque symbol of being proud at not having to think for oneself. He didn't use anecdotal stories and use popular public figures to promote his point which would have worked far better. Sadly there is no more chance at convincing these people of what is real than our ancestors had getting those wealthy Chinese women to walk again. The only real solution is to label religious indoctrination as child abuse and force people not to shove it down children's brains until they have some ability to think properly for themselves. But that's never going to happen. Hell this kind of legimitization is just what helps get that crap put into American science classrooms.

In the end all Bill did was put hundreds of thousands of dollars into those idiots pockets so they can make a bigger ark and animate thier sea monsters. Even worse much of the money will go to lobby thier whacko historical science textbooks into public schools. It was just one more determined flush of the toilet with America stuck in the bowl just about to go down the tubes compared to the rest of the educated first world countries. It's really quite sad.