Celtic Heroes

To all the people reading this evolutionists I have a question for you
If there is no God no spiritual being in this world what type of world is this? We have no morales except one by men, which they make the same mistakes and their rules do you want to follow rules and regulations by hypocrites? We are merely molecules created by a explosion which somehow created men gender,animals,planets and then the universe? We have no morales? So no meaning in life? Why are we still alive if so? Maybe that's why every day someone dies from killing themselves? Look at the Columbine School Shooting , Eric Harris one of the shooters, look and his web posts and what he wore when he killed himself, this is what he loves Natural Selection you know what that is? It is survival of the fittest so everyday is like hunger games except after you win you will always lose and someone will kill you or you die from old age like the cycle of life? No that is not what it is In the Bible is says we were made in the image of Christ, he is God. That sentence explains it all. We were made by God in His image, just think you ,me ,everyone made by God. Who gives us eternal joy when we die,not Hell. Better to live one day in heaven then 1000 years in another place. So think about it do you want to live in Heaven in Hell? Look this up sometime if you are interested in Heaven John 3:16 one of the greatest verses that explain it all, if your even more interested go to church sometime.

There is plenty of evidence to suggest evolution has happened and is still occurring. Fossils, carbon dating, etc. Your grasp on Darwinism is seriously flawed... :/

We forge our own morales and destiny. From what Tgwaste has said, that concept is the same whether you are religious or not. I suppose there may be a religion that believes in 'God's plan' or something very similar.

I do not do well with walls of words so that is all I am going to pull out. :/

Actually I was more commenting WITH you. I was adding to your thoughts regarding your comment to the other person.

Ah, sorry about that. I mistook one of your sentences.

Its better to say: The Bible should be taken as 100% true.
Now that doesn't mean the stories are all true stories. It means the direction the Bible gives you should be taken as the true direction. Story telling has been used throughout history to explain things. The Bibles uses it as well. Its the point of the story that one should consider. the lesson. There are
however many things in the Bible that should of course be taken literally. I believe these things are evident especially with regards to Jesus (who taught
a great deal via stories).

I do like that view, and wish that more people felt the same way you do about it. It would be much easier if discussions could be limited to truth and relevance, rather than a historical reality. Personally, I tend to "leave the room" when someone starts claiming that it is 100% factual, or 100% accurate... as I find it no different than talking to a wall.

I quite agree with your sentences about direction and story telling. The main difference in our opinions, I think, is that what you might call "Inspired by God," I might call "Inspired by belief in God." I realize that you might view that difference as a gaping canyon. I don't mean to offend your beliefs, only express mine.

I don't believe the same argument could be made. I also don't believe the collections mentioned above reflect the kind of collection in the Bible. There is a reason why the Bible has been the #1 book in the world for 2,000 years.

I'll conceded that several of the collections that I listed are not on the same magnitude as the Bible, but I stand by my general premiss of their being collected by people for a purpose. For the sake of comparison though, I'll leave the non-religious texts out of the debate.

I agree with you that we can probably call the Bible the #1 book over the past 2000 years... but I also think that a) that concept is often inflated, b) you are underestimating the Jewish Bible and the Quran, c) I don't think the fact of the last 2000 is reflected in the current state of the world.

a) I suppose the metric we use is going to be important. It is rather tough with the books mentioned. The reason I think the Bible stats are inflated are partially due to what Christians "do" with their Bibles, and also linked to what Jews and Muslims don't "do" with their texts (or at least not so much).

Comparing the number of books printed gives us a skewed number - the Gideons alone are responsible for (they claim) nearly 2 billion of the Bibles ever printed. Those were mostly given to hotels, motels, and distributed at schools. I think most of those have gone unread. Christianity also has a history of missionary work, again, where a lot of Bibles are printed and distributed, but not necessarily read. And Christian homes tend to have a fair amount of Bibles that go unused (the average American home has 4.5, apparently. This is pretty much in line with my Canadian home... I think there were 4 or 5). None of that tells us anything about Bibles read. It does, most certainly however, tell us a little about traditions kept.

Christianity is also interesting in that it allows for all sorts of Bibles, in many many languages. I still have a illustrated Bible for children that I got for my first communion.

Muslims do do some missionary work, but I think to a much smaller degree. They were also very late to adopt machine printing, and generally frown on translations; if Muslims have kid's versions, it is a recent thing. As such, for many years, the Quran had a limited readership. Those who could recite the Quran, however, are a different story. I have no impression of Jewish missionaries... but admit I've never looked them up.

b) Linked to printing and translation, the Quran and Islamic beliefs have gone through a massive influx of popularity in the past 100 years. While Islam nearly doubled in market share, Christianity has only managed to hold its own at best. Of course, this is going to give a rise to both books as populations of both groups has increased, but you certainly have to wonder what the numbers will be 100 years out.

As for the Tanakh... considering is it considered part of the canonical Christian Bible, I think it can very much be included in our group of important collections. I suppose one could also argue that since it is part of both religions, it technically outnumbers the Christian Bible in a way. Only a technicality though. most Christian Bible buyers buy it for the New Testament.

c) Though I don't count the Bible out by any means, and hope that it makes a recovery over time, I think it has an uphill battle in the current world (at least as far as "1st world nations" are concerned.) As I said above, Islam is by far the fastest growing religion, which will grow the importance of the Quran. Christianity is chugging along, sure, but if recent American studies can be taken as a barometer for 1st world Christian nations, readership is quite low, and general understanding is bordering on pathetic.

Again, just as a recap, I am in no way shape or form trying to put the Bible down. I think you are completely correct in saying that it has been the #1 book, and I think that no matter which religion has the most followers, the Bible will remain one of the most important books of all time. Like I said, I've read it a couple times, and think it is a great book. I also think that it offers great direction. For the record, I have only read parts of the Quran, and my understanding is mostly through indirect sources.

[Edits: Added some adjectives for clarification; corrected a mistype; added this edit list ]

People might want to kill me for this.

Most religions teach that their gods are impressed by certain rituals. a.k.a prayers, such as body position, the way the body is facing, and the certain words that are repeated. When religions disagree, it is usually over ritual.
"You are facing the wrong way! You aren't kneeling properly! You forgot to say the special word!"and other silly things.
There are different religious groups and their prayer rituals vary. Muslim fights muslim over supposedly incorrect ritual in prayer. "You say one word different than me! Infidel!" They believe that this pleases God.

But I believe that...

God wants to be our friend.
God called the Prophet Abraham His friend. How do you get to be somebody's friend? You spend time with him and talk to him. Nothing could be more simple, but unfortunately some religions confuse the matter.

God probably doesn't want constant repetition in prayer.
If I repeated the same words to someone every day, he/she would probably freak out, and certainly wouldn't see me as much of a friend. But if I spent hours each day talking to someone about the most important things of my life, then he/she would see me as a close companion. This is the kind of relationship that God wants with us. God never asked us to repeat the same words day in and day out. Such ritual is probably useless after centuries of repetition. After listening to it for a few thousand years, I think God probably wouldn't buy that anymore.

God doesn't care which way your body is facing when you pray.
Why face a certain direction when you pray? What is there? In Mecca there is a meteorite that the pagans started worshipping centuries before Mohammed. Perhaps they saw it fall from the sky. In any case they thought that it was a magical rock and a god, so they started making pilgrimages to Mecca to worship it. Muslims today worship the same pagan idol when they kiss it. When they cannot be with their magic rock god, then they pray facing it five times a day. Almighty god is most likely not a rock in Mecca :|. (Sound of Muslim extremists pointing AK at me )

God doesn't care about your posture when you pray.
You can pray kneeling, standing, or lying in your bed. The prophets Abraham, Moses, and Jesus often prayed standing up with their eyes looking toward heaven and their hands raised. The psalmists prayed lying in their beds. The devil wants you to think that you can only pray when kneeling. Kneeling is not always possible, so the devil's commandment about kneeling prohibits prayer. Meanwhile God tells us to pray without ceasing. God wants heartfelt prayer throughout each day. You can pray at school while you are learning. You can pray at work while you are working. You can pray in private and you can pray in public, you can pray while driving your car, you can even pray when you're playing CH! In every situation you can pray and God wants you to pray. Don't wait until you can kneel. God will tell you in your heart to pray. Listen to God and do what He says. Pray without ceasing. Yesterday a random muslim guy on facebook pmed me, "I pray 5 times a day and wake up in the middle of the night to pray extra, while you don't even have a religion, you are our sin." He does not realize that his prayer life is amazingly inadequate. There are thousands of opportunities for prayer each day, not a mere five.

God doesn't care about endless rituals.
The prayer rituals of Islam and other religion is almost endless. You must dress a certain way, wash a certain way, know the exact time, and the list goes on and on. This kind of thing is simply added later on. It has no value to God. All it can do is hinder you. A muslim laborer thinks he can't pray because he accidentally got dust on his shirt. The filth God sees is not the dirt on your shirt, but the immoral condition of your heart. We've all done terrible things at some point of our lives. God sees every sin, and yet He loves us anyway. He wants to have a real relationship with you, not a ritualistic one. Jesus taught that God is your Abba, or Dad. Today you can begin a real relationship with God. God will be pleased.

EDIT: I do realized later on that I probably said some things that are potentially insulting to some religious believers. To all religious believers, these are just my opinions, and my opinions should not influence your own beliefs, it is ok to pray at a certain direction or dress in a certain whatsoever, as long as you show your passion and love to god, god will bless you.

you evolutionists think that your theory is so thoroughly confirmed by overwhelming evidence that it is an uncontroversial fact that deserves a complete monopoly in labs and classrooms. but show me a FACT that supports evolution, not these little presumptuous ideas of what an intelligent designer would or would not do. ANYTHING.

you evolutionists think that your theory is so thoroughly confirmed by overwhelming evidence that it is an uncontroversial fact that deserves a complete monopoly in labs and classrooms. but show me a FACT that supports evolution, not these little presumptuous ideas of what an intelligent designer would or would not do. ANYTHING.

Do you believe in and understand gene mutations? Evolution is basically the idea that people with a mutation that helps them survive better will have a very good chance to reproduce, therefore, spreading that mutated gene.

Cancers, tumours, deformation, etc; are proof that the body can mutate and we are awaiting a more useful adaptation that will further help us survive.

Ap Bio ftw... Lol.

you evolutionists think that your theory is so thoroughly confirmed by overwhelming evidence that it is an uncontroversial fact that deserves a complete monopoly in labs and classrooms. but show me a FACT that supports evolution, not these little presumptuous ideas of what an intelligent designer would or would not do. ANYTHING.

Do you believe in and understand gene mutations? Evolution is basically the idea that people with a mutation that helps them survive better will have a very good chance to reproduce, therefore, spreading that mutated gene.

Cancers, tumours, deformation, etc; are proof that the body can mutate and we are awaiting a more useful adaptation that will further help us survive.

Ap Bio ftw... Lol.

So there is no such thing as a "Theory of Evolution". It does not exist. Its called "Darwin's Theory of Evolution" and there is no other theory outside of that one. What you are talking about above is a mutation or an adaptation not evolution. Darwin's Theory of Evolution says that one species can become a whole different species. This is where the disagreement is. A true scientist will say that this has not at all been proven. Hence why its still called Darwin's THEORY and not Darwin's FACT. There is no proof what-so-ever of a change in KINDS. Only adaptations within the species themselves (a cat knows to use the litter-box without being told is not evolution, its an adaptation).

Personally I don't quite know where I stand yet. Evolution is not contrary to Christianity. God could had very well used evolution for his purposes. There is a lot of heated debate here because a lot of religious people think evolution disproves God. That is not at all correct.

I am however skeptical of evolution because of all the manipulation that surrounds it. Like where those two guys glued 2 butterflies to a tree and took a picture as some kind of proof that was later found out to be a lie and yet its still in public school books. For me evolution is currently Liberal Propaganda and thus I sway away from it. Of course that doesn't mean its false.

The topic doesn't even belong in this thread in my opinion.

you evolutionists think that your theory is so thoroughly confirmed by overwhelming evidence that it is an uncontroversial fact that deserves a complete monopoly in labs and classrooms. but show me a FACT that supports evolution, not these little presumptuous ideas of what an intelligent designer would or would not do. ANYTHING.

Do you believe in and understand gene mutations? Evolution is basically the idea that people with a mutation that helps them survive better will have a very good chance to reproduce, therefore, spreading that mutated gene.

Cancers, tumours, deformation, etc; are proof that the body can mutate and we are awaiting a more useful adaptation that will further help us survive.

Ap Bio ftw... Lol.

yes i understand how it is soposed to work. and cells can mutate a little, but evolution accounts for all living things from just a couple little cells. after a hundred years of fruitless fruit fly experiments, scientists havnt been able to account for one fruit fly species from another fruit fly species. and deformation that we see today is rarly beneficial. Natural selection is how its sopposed to work. and people born with deformations is not natural selection. if someone is born with a good deformation and it spreads on, then ill listen. we do not see people or animals changing in any way. and the fossil record doesnt suport evolution. yes they may have found fossils that are "close" to humans but they would have to find something like the farther you dig down the more the fossils change. and they havn't.

you evolutionists think that your theory is so thoroughly confirmed by overwhelming evidence that it is an uncontroversial fact that deserves a complete monopoly in labs and classrooms. but show me a FACT that supports evolution, not these little presumptuous ideas of what an intelligent designer would or would not do. ANYTHING.

Do you believe in and understand gene mutations? Evolution is basically the idea that people with a mutation that helps them survive better will have a very good chance to reproduce, therefore, spreading that mutated gene.

Cancers, tumours, deformation, etc; are proof that the body can mutate and we are awaiting a more useful adaptation that will further help us survive.

Ap Bio ftw... Lol.

So there is no such thing as a "Theory of Evolution". It does not exist. Its called "Darwin's Theory of Evolution" and there is no other theory outside of that one. What you are talking about above is a mutation or an adaptation not evolution. Darwin's Theory of Evolution says that one species can become a whole different species. This is where the disagreement is. A true scientist will say that this has not at all been proven. Hence why its still called Darwin's THEORY and not Darwin's FACT. There is no proof what-so-ever of a change in KINDS. Only adaptations within the species themselves (a cat knows to use the litter-box without being told is not evolution, its an adaptation).

Personally I don't quite know where I stand yet. Evolution is not contrary to Christianity. God could had very well used evolution for his purposes. There is a lot of heated debate here because a lot of religious people think evolution disproves God. That is not at all correct.

I am however skeptical of evolution because of all the manipulation that surrounds it. Like where those two guys glued 2 butterflies to a tree and took a picture as some kind of proof that was later found out to be a lie and yet its still in public school books. For me evolution is currently Liberal Propaganda and thus I sway away from it. Of course that doesn't mean its false.

The topic doesn't even belong in this thread in my opinion.

exactly

srry

Hey, thanks for explaining some of these things. I have one thing to ask about and I will leave the rest alone as they delve deep into specific religious concepts that I am not familiar with.

I am still confused on God's interference. Earlier, I mentioned God's supposed desire to help all yet there are still people suffering and dying. I seem to see two answers now: God does not interfere due to his(her/its) acceptance of free-will and God's interference is actually on another level that happens over time as you help yourself. Is there a combination I am not aware of?

Now this is just an example; I apologise if it offends anyone and I will remove it if asked to.

Adolf Hitler and Holocaust. He committed mass murder but God allows him to pave his own destiny under the rule of free-will. What about the victims? If Hitler wished to commit such a crime and go to Hell, so be it, but why did so many have to suffer?

hitler did not kill 6 million jews. it is a lie. the number 6 million was invented before the war. why is he made out to be bad? because he separated himself and his country from the world banking system. he wanted german money, german media, german everything. he loved his country and the people loved him. if the had won the war, they would have a far advanced society than anyone else. and he didnt try to take over the world, that is also a lie. the only war that he provoked was the war with russia because he wanted to destroy communism. he had no intention of killing any jew; he tried to send them all to israel. and the ones that wouldnt he put in the camps and the were not bad. they had pools. as for the pictures, the german people were terribly persecuted after the war for revenge. and hitler wanted the jews out because they are the people that lead this world banking system. NOT every jew is like that... just a handfull but hitler knew that. it is true.

yikes.

i would ask people to not reply to this. it isn't worth it and will only cause this whole thread to get side tracked with complete nonsense.