Celtic Heroes

So yes in short science is not 100% certain of all things but in reality it is the best possible system for achieving the highest degree of certanity possible. There is nothing MORE certain. That is undeniable and incontrovertible

I share the first belief. I as well believe science leads to the highest degree of certainty possible and there is nothing, to this point in time, more certain. However, that does not make science undeniable/incontrovertible. Science leads to a conclusion but that conclusion can be modified or even proved incorrect with later evidence. That is the nature of science.

We both seem to agree that science is not certain so I am curious, what is your definition of undeniable and incontrovertible? Mine are as follows:

Undeniable/incontrovertible: Impossible to declare untrue, contradict, or disprove.

In my opinion, evolution is as close to the truth as possible but it is certainly not impossible to declare untrue, contradict, or disprove. That is the case with all scientific theories, hence why they are called theories. Even scientific law is just a theory that has more evidence and experiments to support it than a basic system of ideas/hypotheses.

I'm offended that you would think me a troll. But i'm curious, could you explain to me please the flaw in logic if somebody has the belief that a machine having a maker is within the realm of possibility? Why are they so stupid for believing such a thing is even remotely possible?




On a side note, you should totally ask santa to get you this for christmas. I got one last year and it was awesome.

Lol awesome toy.

Sorry perhaps I was wrong but your account is only a few days old so that is why I suspected.

And as to the question - thought I had explained it above. If you had no evidence yet, no hypothesis or theory, then yes it's actually quite rational. It was a leading argument for creationism for a long time. Guessing but it may even be one of the leading reasons why religion was created in the first place. But ever since evolution - that is if you had the theory and data available to you for examination such as in today's society - it is no longer a viewpoint that is rational.

Part of being intelligent about reality is being able to go where ever the facts lead. As I've said the idea of quantum mechanics is far more bizzare with the evidence much harder to see and understand. If people were comming at science unbiased then I would imagine the bulk would take aim at that theory.

So yes in short science is not 100% certain of all things but in reality it is the best possible system for achieving the highest degree of certanity possible. There is nothing MORE certain. That is undeniable and incontrovertible

I share the first belief. I as well believe science leads to the highest degree of certainty possible and there is nothing, to this point in time, more certain. However, that does not make science undeniable/incontrovertible. Science leads to a conclusion but that conclusion can be modified or even proved incorrect with later evidence. That is the nature of science.

We both seem to agree that science is not certain so I am curious, what is your definition of undeniable and incontrovertible? Mine are as follows:

Undeniable/incontrovertible: Impossible to declare untrue, contradict, or disprove.

In my opinion, evolution is as close to the truth as possible but it is certainly not impossible to declare untrue, contradict, or disprove. That is the case with all scientific theories, hence why they are called theories. Even scientific law is just a theory that has more evidence and experiments to support it than a basic system of ideas/hypotheses.

Ok so you are right as far as I can see.

I use those terms, perhaps somewhat loosely, because there are many many people that think science is continually showing everything that came before to be false and is thus uncertain, a wild guess, and on equal footing with every wild guess and conjecture crackpots come up with. Like there is some 'belief' to it or 'faith' or opinion or something. Many 'believe' that evolution may simply be dismissed and claim ancient tomes dispense pure truth from Devine sources and that is more certain.

The reason I say it's impossible to declare untrue, contradict, or disprove is simple. Evidence that has been collected independently by hundreds of thousands to millions of different sources, including my own (or any individual thinking about it for themselves) gathering, can't really be 100% wrong. In fact only small bits of data ever get disproven the 99.99% stays true forever. The possibility is so remote it is essentially impossible for practical everyday terms. Any attempt that fails to become a new hypothesis or theory does nothing to science. Any better hypothesis or theory needs to accept the validity of all that data which won't ever change. So science essentially is impossible to declare untrue, contradict or disprove in general terms - any successful attempt becomes science thus removing the conflict.

In fact that just described the process of science.

So yes you caught me but it's easier to say incontrovertible than several pages explaining the nuances.

I see what you mean and that part of why I choose evolution over creationism. The amount of sources that lead to evolution outweigh the amount of sources that lead to creationism, which for Christianity (as an example), is just the bible as far as I know.

I did not intend to start any long debate about the use of those words. I just wished to establish that science changes just as life changes. That is why I believe in infinite possibilities but, at the very least, there are multiple possibilities.

We may just as well develop technology that is capable of proving the existence of God, another such entity, or entities.


Again, I will address the topic as a whole; rather than focus on the evidence against God, please provide clear evidence that would prove the existence of God, another such entity, or other entities.

Funny how nobody questions M theory/string theory. Funny how nobody questions water displacement. Funny how nobody questions diffusion. The ONLY thing you people believe is what was force fed to you as a child, and you only question that which goes against your religion.

We may just as well develop technology that is capable of proving the existence of God, another such entity, or entities.

We already have this technology. If some deity were to fly down through the clouds and obviously violate the laws of physics again and again making magical things happen - recorded on hundreds of millions of video recorders and witnessed by billions there would be no doubt. It would also still be science.

If there were a particular faith or faiths that when people in that faith were prayed for they regrew limbs, were cured of down syndrome, or other such obviously impossible things the evidence would be overwhelming. It would also still be science.

So in short because of the scientific method as it stands, it is perfectly capable of determining this if there is any evidence. So far there is absolutely none.

Funny how nobody questions M theory/string theory. Funny how nobody questions water displacement. Funny how nobody questions diffusion. The ONLY thing you people believe is what was force fed to you as a child, and you only question that which goes against your religion.

I would disagree. I have questioned Christianity myself. I am also a Christian. And I am not the type of person that just accepts something so easily. I have looked for evidence against Christianity and intelligent design and have not been able to find anything. What created the particles that made the Big Bang (assuming evolution was real). They were not all powerful. And we can't just prove God is real. Evidence points towards it (why were the Hebrews able to vanquish so many armies bigger then them? Their answer was their god.) I will never be able to prove to you and make you believe God exists. I do not believe anyone can. That is why Christians value faith so highly. I pray that you will turn to God. @Plus3, thank you for your contributions.

Funny how nobody questions M theory/string theory. Funny how nobody questions water displacement. Funny how nobody questions diffusion. The ONLY thing you people believe is what was force fed to you as a child, and you only question that which goes against your religion.

I would disagree. I have questioned Christianity myself. I am also a Christian. And I am not the type of person that just accepts something so easily. I have looked for evidence against Christianity and intelligent design and have not been able to find anything. What created the particles that made the Big Bang (assuming evolution was real). They were not all powerful. And we can't just prove God is real. Evidence points towards it (why were the Hebrews able to vanquish so many armies bigger then them? Their answer was their god.) I will never be able to prove to you and make you believe God exists. I do not believe anyone can. That is why Christians value faith so highly. I pray that you will turn to God. @Plus3, thank you for your contributions.

I told you this before! The Big Bang was caused by 2 "branes" colliding or splitting! That is what M theory/string theory attempts to explain, you are using a device connected to the internet, please. Don't be ignorant. Please, just google M theory, if you don't understand let me give you a brief over-view. Basically Einstein gave us the idea we are like bugs on a bubble, the bubble is constantly growing and we can't leave or move on the bubble. String theory states there are other bubbles out there, and the creation of our universe was due to the collision of these 2. Just because it cant be explained yet does not mean it cant be explained in the future

Funny how nobody questions M theory/string theory. Funny how nobody questions water displacement. Funny how nobody questions diffusion. The ONLY thing you people believe is what was force fed to you as a child, and you only question that which goes against your religion.

I would disagree. I have questioned Christianity myself. I am also a Christian. And I am not the type of person that just accepts something so easily. I have looked for evidence against Christianity and intelligent design and have not been able to find anything. What created the particles that made the Big Bang (assuming evolution was real). They were not all powerful. And we can't just prove God is real. Evidence points towards it (why were the Hebrews able to vanquish so many armies bigger then them? Their answer was their god.) I will never be able to prove to you and make you believe God exists. I do not believe anyone can. That is why Christians value faith so highly. I pray that you will turn to God. @Plus3, thank you for your contributions.

Also, the reason Hebrews beat numbers higher than them in battle is due to the fact that they had something to fight for, human physiology, if you have the strong belief in something you will fight 100x harder than someone doing it to earn money. They also trained like crazy, it like saying who would win, 1 chuck norris or 10 drunk guys? No competition

Funny how nobody questions M theory/string theory. Funny how nobody questions water displacement. Funny how nobody questions diffusion. The ONLY thing you people believe is what was force fed to you as a child, and you only question that which goes against your religion.

I would disagree. I have questioned Christianity myself. I am also a Christian. And I am not the type of person that just accepts something so easily. I have looked for evidence against Christianity and intelligent design and have not been able to find anything. What created the particles that made the Big Bang (assuming evolution was real). They were not all powerful. And we can't just prove God is real. Evidence points towards it (why were the Hebrews able to vanquish so many armies bigger then them? Their answer was their god.) I will never be able to prove to you and make you believe God exists. I do not believe anyone can. That is why Christians value faith so highly. I pray that you will turn to God. @Plus3, thank you for your contributions.

Aannd finally, you can't have questioned god that deeply if you couldn't take 1 hour out of your busy life to run a quick google search.
The evidence against intelligent design is there, just you can't read my friend. just do yourself a favour and google evolution, google natural selection, or google Charles darwin