Celtic Heroes

Again, I see attempts to disprove God. Where are the attempts to prove that God exists?

I am not trying to be rude but if someone actually does try to find proof by quoting scripture... I will facepalm unless there are other sources.

i agree, scripture written by people, can not be used as proof for the existence of a divine entity

there is no way to prove, nor disprove the existence of a being such as "god"

Again, I see attempts to disprove God. Where are the attempts to prove that God exists?

I am not trying to be rude but if someone actually does try to find proof by quoting scripture... I will facepalm unless there are other sources.

I did make an argument for the existence of a god earlier, and I don't think anyone has given any objections to it or comments on it yet.

Personally, if asked, I would say the most likely explanation is that the universe came from "a god". God meaning something that operates outside of the laws of our universe. Here is my logic behind this:

Assuming the universe exists and is not all simply my imagination and I do not exist, there are three possible scenarios: The universe has always existed, the universe created itself, or something outside of the universe created the universe.

The universe cannot have always existed and have no beginning because eternity is a logical impossibility. Also since thermodynamics states that the entropy of the universe is increasing and the universe is tending toward chaos, at some point, a state of pure chaos must be reached and life will be unable to exist. This state will only take a finite amount of time to be reached, but if the universe has exited for an eternity than any finite amount of time has already passed and pure chaos will have been reached an eternity ago. The fact that we exist proves the universe had a beginning.

If the universe created itself than it directly defies its own law that matter cannot be created or destroyed, making the universe operate outside its own laws and therefore classifying the universe as a god because it operated outside of the laws of the universe. The universe operating outside of itself is a contradiction and the laws of thermodynamics must be rejected in order for it to be possible. Note that there are religions that worship the universe itself as a god (pantheism)

If something outside of the laws of the universe existed before the universe and created the universe and all the laws that govern it, we could logically have the state of the universe that we have today while accepting the laws of thermodynamics. This is the most logical explanation which is why I choose to belive that the universe was created by a god.

I have heard the big bang theory used to state that either nothing exploded and created everything (the universe created itself) which is an explanation of the origin of the universe but must be classified as pantheism, or that something exploded and formed everything, in which case the something had to have come from somewhere making this not an explanation of the true origin, but rather an avoidance of the actual question (a logical fallacy).

If a god did create our universe that still does not explain the beginning of all existence, but it does explain the beginning of our universe's existence and the beginning of its laws, such as time. If this was the case than the god would have existed outside of time and there would be no way it could have had a beginning, because a beginning requires time.

Thinking about this I have imagined that there could be more than one of this god-level being existing in the god-dimension (for lack of a better noun, if you have something better sounding than god-dimension please let me know so I can use it) who may or may not have anything to do with our universe. This is an interesting concept to think about, but impossible to understand without limit breaking your mind.

^^ I apologise, I most likely skipped over it assuming it was just another rant in the back and forth dispute over evolution.

What I see are flaws in all the theories that surround the Big Bang theory with the exception of pantheism which I shall address as part of religion below. I understand your logic and it does make sense. The best way I see fit to rebut is to offer a part of my own reasoning, which spans further than just creation.

The logic you present is actually how I imagine religion was created. People do not know how the universe came to be, how strange phenomena occur, etc. Everyone, religious and nonreligious alike, does not truly know how the universe began (assuming it has not always existed or some other theory). That is why we choose one side of an argument and then favour the less supported parts of that side, and that is exactly what the creation of the universe represents.

The source of my disagreement with religion is what comes after the begining. The irregularities within the bible and other such religious texts, the lack of physical evidence to suggest there exists any omnipotent entity, evidence of writing which indicates people did not understand a simple modern idea and chose to describe it as an act of god(s), suffering, the bad side of human nature, the fact that is it proven that we see ourselves in inanimate objects, etc etc.

Attributing phenomena that we do not understand to omnipotent beings seems to be throughout history in hundreds of different forms. In my opinion, that has gone on for far too long and it is time to open up our minds to other possibilities. Rather than have humanity sit down and "think" of an answer to the unknown, I believe we should set forth to finding the answers ourselves.

On a side note, I really do not mean to be picky but I thought you wrote that you were not religious but in that second quote you say "I choose to believe that the universe was created by a god." This is not a call out, I am just guessing your idea of "religious" may be different from mine and I would like to hear yours.

Thinking about this I have imagined that there could be more than one of this god-level being existing in the god-dimension (for lack of a better noun, if you have something better sounding than god-dimension please let me know so I can use it) who may or may not have anything to do with our universe. This is an interesting concept to think about, but impossible to understand without limit breaking your mind.

I do believe that is possible. However, without more evidence of any omnipotent being in the first place, I choose to lean towards other theories.

What you explained is actually close to the idea of the Ancients in a show called Stargate. They exist on a higher plane of existence (perhaps a better way of saying god-dimension? Lol) and have powers that are can warp reality, heal, injure, etc (similar to powers attributed to a god). However, they choose to abide by rules they set which do not allow interference in the lower levels of existance. Is this idea what you have in mind?

Again, I see attempts to disprove God. Where are the attempts to prove that God exists?

I am not trying to be rude but if someone actually does try to find proof by quoting scripture... I will facepalm unless there are other sources.

i agree, scripture written by people, can not be used as proof for the existence of a divine entity

there is no way to prove, nor disprove the existence of a being such as "god"

You are absolutely right. We cannot mathematically or scientifically prove that God exists as humans. We can only attempt to prove His Intelligent Design. He does not want to be proven but to be believed in.

Again, I see attempts to disprove God. Where are the attempts to prove that God exists?

I am not trying to be rude but if someone actually does try to find proof by quoting scripture... I will facepalm unless there are other sources.

i agree, scripture written by people, can not be used as proof for the existence of a divine entity

there is no way to prove, nor disprove the existence of a being such as "god"

You are absolutely right. We cannot mathematically or scientifically prove that God exists as humans. We can only attempt to prove His Intelligent Design. He does not want to be proven but to be believed in.

If he would like to be believed in, why not come down to Earth and say hi? You can bet I would believe in him if he came face to face with me.

On a side note, I really do not mean to be picky but I thought you wrote that you were not religious but in that second quote you say "I choose to believe that the universe was created by a god." This is not a call out, I am just guessing your idea of "religious" may be different from mine and I would like to hear yours.

I am not religious because I do not practice any religion. The word religion is open to interpretation, but I would define a religious person as someone who has a specific belief about how (s)he should live his/her life and practices following that belief. I am personally closer to being agnostic and I don't follow or practice any religious pattern.

I do not like to discuss the details of what I believe because I am both uncertain where I stand and I have a sensitive situation with my family. My entire family that I have grown up around are firm Christians, I have avoided telling them where I stand because even though I know they will not be angry with me, I do know that it will make them very sad. Both my parents and grandparents were saved by their beliefs, none of them grew up in a christian home, but all of them at some time in their life came to a breaking point and decided to follow the christian god and accept Jesus. My whole extended family who were saved are all experiencing happy lives and all get along wonderfully, my parents are very earnest about their beliefs, my father has even served as a full time pastor while still working a full time job and caring for his large family. I have three older brothers who went into history, philosophy and modeling/acting, my oldest brother is in the Philippines teaching English to children who can't otherwise afford an education. Both my parents and several of my siblings have all gone on multiple mission trips to Mexico to build houses for people who live in the dumps, even when there were gang wars in the area. All in all, I could not be more proud of my family.
But I went into Biochemistry. I am daily seeing conflicting arguments as I move through college. I see large amounts of evidence for evolution, but none of it is proof, all of it has holes, but it is evidence nonetheless and I am determined not to be held back by what my family raised me to be. At the same time, I am not convinced by evolution, its a daily mental debate, and no one has all the answers for me. Also, the farther I pull from the happiness I was raised with, the more depressed I become. Funny how the less I believe in hell, the more I feel like I am in it.
Even though I don't see myself as a religious person, I still feel offended when I see people denouncing or insulting Christians.

On a side note, I really do not mean to be picky but I thought you wrote that you were not religious but in that second quote you say "I choose to believe that the universe was created by a god." This is not a call out, I am just guessing your idea of "religious" may be different from mine and I would like to hear yours.

I am not religious because I do not practice any religion. The word religion is open to interpretation, but I would define a religious person as someone who has a specific belief about how (s)he should live his/her life and practices following that belief. I am personally closer to being agnostic and I don't follow or practice any religious pattern.

I do not like to discuss the details of what I believe because I am both uncertain where I stand and I have a sensitive situation with my family. My entire family that I have grown up around are firm Christians, I have avoided telling them where I stand because even though I know they will not be angry with me, I do know that it will make them very sad. Both my parents and grandparents were saved by their beliefs, none of them grew up in a christian home, but all of them at some time in their life came to a breaking point and decided to follow the christian god and accept Jesus. My whole extended family who were saved are all experiencing happy lives and all get along wonderfully, my parents are very earnest about their beliefs, my father has even served as a full time pastor while still working a full time job and caring for his large family. I have three older brothers who went into history, philosophy and modeling/acting, my oldest brother is in the Philippines teaching English to children who can't otherwise afford an education. Both my parents and several of my siblings have all gone on multiple mission trips to Mexico to build houses for people who live in the dumps, even when there were gang wars in the area. All in all, I could not be more proud of my family.
But I went into Biochemistry. I am daily seeing conflicting arguments as I move through college. I see large amounts of evidence for evolution, but none of it is proof, all of it has holes, but it is evidence nonetheless and I am determined not to be held back by what my family raised me to be. At the same time, I am not convinced by evolution, its a daily mental debate, and no one has all the answers for me. Also, the farther I pull from the happiness I was raised with, the more depressed I become. Funny how the less I believe in hell, the more I feel like I am in it.
Even though I don't see myself as a religious person, I still feel offended when I see people denouncing or insulting Christians.

Fair enough. Thank you for explaining. It takes real courage to open up like that.

I suppose we may never know and so I will just reiterate; we are all people and even with our differences in beliefs, we all share common ground as the majority of our lives are spent worrying about other things that matter more at the moment.

Again, I see attempts to disprove God. Where are the attempts to prove that God exists?

I am not trying to be rude but if someone actually does try to find proof by quoting scripture... I will facepalm unless there are other sources.

I did make an argument for the existence of a god earlier, and I don't think anyone has given any objections to it or comments on it yet.

Personally, if asked, I would say the most likely explanation is that the universe came from "a god". God meaning something that operates outside of the laws of our universe. Here is my logic behind this:

Assuming the universe exists and is not all simply my imagination and I do not exist, there are three possible scenarios: The universe has always existed, the universe created itself, or something outside of the universe created the universe.

The universe cannot have always existed and have no beginning because eternity is a logical impossibility. Also since thermodynamics states that the entropy of the universe is increasing and the universe is tending toward chaos, at some point, a state of pure chaos must be reached and life will be unable to exist. This state will only take a finite amount of time to be reached, but if the universe has exited for an eternity than any finite amount of time has already passed and pure chaos will have been reached an eternity ago. The fact that we exist proves the universe had a beginning.

If the universe created itself than it directly defies its own law that matter cannot be created or destroyed, making the universe operate outside its own laws and therefore classifying the universe as a god because it operated outside of the laws of the universe. The universe operating outside of itself is a contradiction and the laws of thermodynamics must be rejected in order for it to be possible. Note that there are religions that worship the universe itself as a god (pantheism)

If something outside of the laws of the universe existed before the universe and created the universe and all the laws that govern it, we could logically have the state of the universe that we have today while accepting the laws of thermodynamics. This is the most logical explanation which is why I choose to belive that the universe was created by a god.

I have heard the big bang theory used to state that either nothing exploded and created everything (the universe created itself) which is an explanation of the origin of the universe but must be classified as pantheism, or that something exploded and formed everything, in which case the something had to have come from somewhere making this not an explanation of the true origin, but rather an avoidance of the actual question (a logical fallacy).

Actually, Einstein's E=mc2 shows us that energy and mass are essentially the same thing, which is why when we take matter and anti-matter and put them together there is a release of energy, so in theory there has to be a backwards method to this. And just because we were made in a finite time doesn't mean the universe cant be infinite, and even if this is so, why choose to believe christianity over all other religions?
And you have grossly mis-interpreted what happened in the Big Bang, in the Big Bang two branes/universes (they are called branes in the sciencey world) collided and merged, or one brane split, and that is how we exist, also the centre point of the Big Bang would have been a singularity/black hole of a supermassive size