Celtic Heroes

This is server to server decision not a moral or ethical one.

On Arawn all clans help out form two grps, one for adds one for boss.. raid leader gets the drops, every class rolls for the class items, everyone save people who got gear rolls for the non class. And top lvl of each class gets the class weapon, unless they have it.

Smellyunder chief of BadaBing came up with these rules and they work great for Arawn.

So we don't ever KS, we work together. And all win.

This is server to server decision not a moral or ethical one.

On Arawn all clans help out form two grps, one for adds one for boss.. raid leader gets the drops, every class rolls for the class items, everyone save people who got gear rolls for the non class. And top lvl of each class gets the class weapon, unless they have it.

Smellyunder chief of BadaBing came up with these rules and they work great for Arawn.

So we don't ever KS, we work together. And all win.

Tea we do that with our clan, but we have 3 very high level clans in our world. 2 of them are evenly matched, but one is jut completly dps, with only like 2-3 Druids. They just sit and wait at a boss hoping for someone to come for an FFA, so they can win. Do you think its morally wrong to have a clan stay up just to wait for a few members in different time zones, be prepared with tanks and Druids, and support only to get dpsed by a clan who can't take Agra themselves?

This is server to server decision not a moral or ethical one.

On Arawn all clans help out form two grps, one for adds one for boss.. raid leader gets the drops, every class rolls for the class items, everyone save people who got gear rolls for the non class. And top lvl of each class gets the class weapon, unless they have it.

Smellyunder chief of BadaBing came up with these rules and they work great for Arawn.

So we don't ever KS, we work together. And all win.

Tea we do that with our clan, but we have 3 very high level clans in our world. 2 of them are evenly matched, but one is jut completly dps, with only like 2-3 Druids. They just sit and wait at a boss hoping for someone to come for an FFA, so they can win. Do you think its morally wrong to have a clan stay up just to wait for a few members in different time zones, be prepared with tanks and Druids, and support only to get dpsed by a clan who can't take Agra themselves?

To be fair my friend, Yes it's wrong...but it's difficult because I also don't think that encapsulates the entire story.

Server Politics are usually long drawn out 100lb/45kilo chips on everyone's shoulder. Everyone KS'ing someone because in their mind they got KS'd by the clan they are attacking so that makes it fair...etc. Everyone ready to grief because they feel griefed. Everyone a victim of another's vices...everyone angry about it.

That's why I tried to appeal to the idea that it's all server by server oriented. Your server defines the rules, what's fair, what's accepted and what is permissible. And you all know much better than any of us what those answers are.

I am just saying, on Arawn we made a multi-clan decision to be fair and be cooperative. We find we all save money (plat) and all save time if you aren't fighting clans and bosses at the same time.

This is exactly why the target lock should go forward. The only people that will be upset will be dps. I say do it and let people get over it.

You say the other group was at wyvs when you started? It doesn't sound like KS, but rather "competition" to me. Would you have been any happier if they lined up next to you first and waited for you to initiate? If you had a small yet capable group and you were engaged on Aggra for a few minutes or so, then a larger more capable group rushed in and ultimately won the kill, I would consider that KS, which i would consider ethically questionable.

Competing for a boss is classed as FFA on Rhiannon. But the thing is, they didn't have a bigger group, and they couldn't take. They were simply there to FFA. If they left, we could have taken, but knowing they could just stand there and auto/skill, while we apply our strategies to the fight, tank, and heal the boss, personally feels wrong to me. That is why I'm asking how everyone else feels.

Honestly, I'm very intrigued to see how the Target Lock system will plan out. Hopefully it's for the better

Thanks all for the comments, and keep them coming!

I enjoy this discussion. One reason being I am a general of the clan that is being bashed on. Another because I put a lot of work into what I achieved.
Many people forget that most have left one clan to join another... For multiple reasons.
But to interrupt us while training and then proceed to think we won't engauge a free for all when it's agreed in rhiannon to do so? I think not.
If you will attempt a free for all on my clan... I will most surely return the favor regaurdless of the boss it pertains to.
That being said. Let the games begin.
We put a lot of hard work into this just like you all did. I respect EternalSin and everything you have accomplished. But do not forget I did help the clan to grow. I was once a guardian of eternal. I know you work hard. I do not deny this. But remember the rules we play by.
This is Rhiannon. The world of Peace. We have set our rules. So we play by them for the fairness of the game.
If you want Aggragoth... Take him. Welcome to Rhiannon. Home of the Deadliest!

If those are the 'rules' then I recommend:

1- use the tank to simply turn aggy on the dps clan. Coordinate the move with your own dps. The dragon breath attack runs roughly on the same cycle as bash so you can predict it. They will idol Rez so this may not work.

2- if this is not working, simply log out. If you are not running an add group, it might be most effective to do this during the first rndof ads after the top. Everybody loses since the dps clan cannot hope to take the dragon themselves. Because of this, the pride in KSing is simply a false pride, IMO. It is sad, but they will be reduced to spoilers, instead of thinking they have made a kill. In other words it reveals the actual dynamic and level of skill involved.

3- this may result in the dps clan attempting to put together a tank and sufficient healing... You should simply build your own small dps team to counter this if you wish to, though it does not sound like the risk is great.

The result of the second is of course that no one on your server will get aggy. Too bad, but if you are not getting him anyway, I see no reason why you should help another clan that is incapable on their own, when their is no intent on their part to share either the risk or the reward. I wonder how long aggy will just sit there before some meaningful change takes place?

Personally, I do not like the idea of first hit target lock. It is a coping mechanism for the mechanic that allows the 'skill' of the game to be imagined as purely dps based. The fact that a pure dps group cannot actually take most bosses without acting as a parasite shows this to be a false measure and a false source of pride.

I am in favor of a balanced kill award based on a combination of dps and aggro managment, which of curse includes heals. This does not remove competition, but balances it meaningfully to accurately reflect risk/reward.

Personally, I am not impressed with the so called 'skill' involved in KSing under the current system. I would be embarrassed if this were a source pride for myself or my clan... Not to mention terribly bored with that adolescent, one dimensional play style.

Just my opinion, of course.

I'm not bashing - I mentioned no names, I was just simply seeing if others thought it was wrong. When the FFA rules were updated, all 3 chiefs said they could work, but everyone has to work on there honour system. I don't think I've ever FFAd since update without the intention of our own clan taking and a healer there.

Aggragoth is not just another normal boss. It takes commitment and sacrifices from members. What's the point in organising a raid, knowing that it could be jeopardised by another clan, trying to FFA because they can't take themselves?

For the record, I would never, and will never, be a part of an FFA on Aggragoth, stopping another clan from taking when my own can't. I think it is wrong, and it shows no respect what-so-ever, to people that play this game.

After the target lock, the organisation of clans will be the key to the top spot

P.s. Rhiannon is no longer the world of peace. Friends that once were, now have hatred for each other. Clans that used to help one another, now FFA at any given chance. Rhiannon is NOT the world of peace, and if my family wasn't here, I'd be bugging for a world switch too.

I'm not bashing - I mentioned no names, I was just simply seeing if others thought it was wrong. When the FFA rules were updated, all 3 chiefs said they could work, but everyone has to work on there honour system. I don't think I've ever FFAd since update without the intention of our own clan taking and a healer there.

Aggragoth is not just another normal boss. It takes commitment and sacrifices from members. What's the point in organising a raid, knowing that it could be jeopardised by another clan, trying to FFA because they can't take themselves?

For the record, I would never, and will never, be a part of an FFA on Aggragoth, stopping another clan from taking when my own can't. I think it is wrong, and it shows no respect what-so-ever, to people that play this game.

After the target lock, the organisation of clans will be the key to the top spot

P.s. Rhiannon is no longer the world of piece. Friends that once were, now have hatred for each other. Clans that used to help one another, now FFA at any given chance. Rhiannon is NOT the world of piece, and if my family wasn't here, I'd be bugging for a world switch too.

Hey Rap,

Coming from the same world, I feel your pain and know of the situation. Rhiannon has suffered a major shake-up and it will take some time to settle back into being a "world of peace" it once was. That said- there are still many worlds who are much worse off than we are.

The top 3 clans at the time (Rapture Eve, Eternal Sin, and RESPECT) Created the Rhiannon World FFA agreement. Deadliest, having not been formed, its not in my mind- subject to the agreement tho they have followed it since most of them have come from one of these 3 clans.

Perhaps it would be helpful to gather the chiefs and generals once more and revise the agreement and lay down some lines that address this issue. What they did was NOT against the rules as it stands...tho its not completely a polite thing to do either. I would also add that while the game *is* about who can do the most damage and get the kill- should it be at the price of respect, honor and friendship on Rhiannon?

I have friends and family in all clans. Some that im extreamly hurt and annoyied with because they left my clan granted, but friends and family none the less.

Sincerely,

Lady Rosethorn of Rhiannon
Guardian of Rapture Eve

I agree with you 100% rap. Especially the p.s. part. idk how to requote but wish i could