Celtic Heroes

At least you admit its about the bossfights. Have I EVER been mean or rude to you in the history of this game? Not once. You never gave me anything, i remember buying one frag from you because it was the last one I needed, and I promised I would give you one in return for FREE. I have no problem with giving away free frags as long as people are polite and helpful. So not only do you charge me thousands of gold for the frag, but I'm gunna give you a free one. Yea, very unfair. Frags, like all items have a value, so if you sell them for thousands of gold dont whine about it. I will sell some of mine for thousands of gold too, sure. In fact I will sell them for the same amount I bought them if you think I am trying to gain anything. The boss fights are not all that concerns me. I help more members of both clans than you do, by far. I am easily one of the slowest levelers of all the high levels in the clan because I don't use any knowledge potions and I never level for long periods of time, just consistently. You also never even asked me for an invite into a boss group or asked my opinion on it. I've seen you asking other people who have rejected you, but you can call me out if you want, because i'm a very upfront person and have no problem answering. I help people all the time and have dedicated a whole clan JUST to helping. Some people in our clan are self interested and have never helped a lower level person in their life. Who cares? I dont dislike them because of that because it is a game. It is for entertainment. There are some people who I consider friends such as Jezzy, Shag, Phil, and Cora because i've known them for months and I would defend them no matter what even though we may disagree now and then *cough lol* You are a kid who is very needy. You whine a lot about not getting respect in a make believe game and the other day you were asking if anybody would miss you if you left. I didnt tell you to shut it because I have respect for everyone in the game, until they run their mouths. Games are about entertainment and yes, helping others is a good thing everywhere but you can't just feel like it is owed to you. Get over yourself, dont be a drama queen, and realize that people will help you if you are nice but if a small group wants the challenge of killing a boss by themselves, then let them and help other people your level train with you so one day that group of clannies can take on bosses themselves, just like we did.

Actually BK I did ask you a few good times and its not all about boss fight. But here's a example. I asked ian if you all had a empty space for a boss fight and she said yes so I asked you if I could join and all you said was "closed" now I'm not going to listen to you sit here and call me names because that's stupid. If you want to talk to me more on this subject you can msg me but other than that I don't want to hear anymore name calling or anything you just did. And I gave you 2 other disks to help you get the armor. Now no more. I am DONE with all this

Sorry jezzy but you're clueless about half of what you just talked about.

LOL right, I'm just clueless. Sure. Ok. I've had plenty of experience in mmorpg's and clans (about 4 years btw)... so I do know a little buddy.

But that's cool, you can enjoy what's left of the clan I am demoting myself then. I give up and I'm done with this crap I'll no longer be guardian.

Let this be warning, if the state of this clan continues like this do not expect me here for long. Also world transferring is looking mighty fine and should be in next update.

You do realize, WHY, everyone is leaving BK? Have you ever noticed why our clan is half inactives? And don't give me bullcrap about seeing them last week or two weeks ago. They are inactive. Just chew on that while you think everything is doing just oh so well in blackwatch

Look im not saying you don't have any valid points. You do and you're entitled to your opinion, as am I. The game shouldnt be all about frags, we all thought they would add depth but when all the high levels got through everything in a week, the game became pretty shallow. You think the priority of a clan is helping others who are somewhat similar in level, while I think it is helping new players learn how to play and one day join the clan. I'm not saying you're wrong at all, but why can't I be allowed to have my own list of priorities? I'm one member of the clan who helps in my own way. You've done a lot to help everyone and i'm not taking that away from you, I just have my own philosophy on video games in general. I think things are most fun when players earn things the right way. If we were all level 90 we wouldn't even play the game at all because it would be way too easy.

I was talking to Phil and Kingen about these same issues and they said they agree with me 100%. Phil raised a great point when he said he spends real money on every boss fight so he wants to have the highest chance to get the frag because he is spending real cash. I probably spend $0.50 to $1 per boss fight on consumable items, and I would guess Phil is spending a few dollars per fight with all the potions he buys. I know you burn through a lot of potions and if you are ok with spending real money so that people you may not really know and are contributing a lot less can get the reward, then that's a generous gesture of you. I'm glad you do it because you've probably helped more people on Epona than anyone and thats a great thing. Because your in that position, I think you are expecting everyone to live up to your generous standards. We can't all do that.

Of the current roster I probably recruited half of them in the catacombs and spent hours there helping them train and become some of the most powerful members such as Phil is. I gave advice, free items, and healing while they trained for hours upon hours for them to catch up. Since the update I have helped a bunch of new people join and i've been focusing the majority of my time on lower level members of Watch List who are just good people.

The game can change for the better, and i'm sure you have very valuable insight from your previous mmo experience. I respect your opinion because I understand that you know what you're doing. However when you say things that are flat out wrong and insulting, i'm gunna call you out on it like I would do to anyone else in the world.
1) You call me out for talking about the boss issue. The next post he says the boss issue is whats making him feel disrespected, and he never says anyone was rude or truly disrespectful to him.
2) You give me no credit for helping so many members and bringing them to the clan, whereas you are quick to flip on me for having a valid and logical opinion on just one issue, which is some boss fights.
3) You basically call the Watch List a failure when it has done nothing but good. What has it done besides good? I've helped several members in it train up and then join our clan to increase our ranks. I've played with a ton of great players who dont whine and just wanna have some fun, and maybe one day join the black watch. Some of them have thanked me and really appreciated the time i spent with them helping and have told me so. But apparently i'm just a selfish greedy guy who wants to punch old ladies in the face. Do you even have a character in the black watch? I log into mine nearly as much as my main character and my main goal on there is helping out lower levels.

I didn't make this clan, nor do I think it is a failure. Shag made the clan with the idea of it being an elite clan, so logically it would be a smaller more select group. We could easily be like legends with a thousand members and never have mature personal conversations because the clan chat is always flooded. Your ideas remind me of politics, a candidate may have genuinely sincere and noble goals, but to implement them would cause another slew of problems.

My idea of the perfect elite clan would be mostly level 40s, less level 50s, less level 60, etc. And the members of the level groups help each other with occasional help from very high levels so they can experience the game as it was designed for them for the best gameplay. We dont have enough diverse people right now for that. Devs are gunna open up worlds eventually, so I hope we can get a lot more people in and make the clan more active. In any online game I play most of the people I knew from the beginning eventually quit. Our problem is that we dont have new players coming in to replace them. A lot of old members got fed up with the wait for the update and moved on before we were even out of the catacombs. You can't blame the clan, its set up a certain way because thats how it is. If its not to your liking then you can suggest change, which you have never done (except contrary to what you are saying here) before this post.You have some good points but you can't blame me or other members who want to do stuff on their own every now and then. The problem is that there arent enough people in the clan of the same mid level to help each other so the mid level guys can feel left out. I've seen Phil, Kingen, and Ian come up together and help each other out. K1ng doesnt really have that little mid level clique as far as I can tell, so I see why he may feel left out sometimes. Its a flaw, but we can fix it by training up the lower levels like ive been doing. You can create your own clan, or talk to Shag about opening up the clan to more people which you can help, its your prerogative.

K1ng, i do remember saying closed to you once because the boss fight was like halfway done and nobody should just jump in when everybody else has already done most of the work. A lot of us spend real money because we like the challenge and to compete and thats how we enjoy a game.

I wrote this kinda tipsy just getting in at 5 am so excuse me if its rant-ish or incoherent in parts.

Look im not saying you don't have any valid points. You do and you're entitled to your opinion, as am I. The game shouldnt be all about frags, we all thought they would add depth but when all the high levels got through everything in a week, the game became pretty shallow. You think the priority of a clan is helping others who are somewhat similar in level, while I think it is helping new players learn how to play and one day join the clan. I'm not saying you're wrong at all, but why can't I be allowed to have my own list of priorities? I'm one member of the clan who helps in my own way. You've done a lot to help everyone and i'm not taking that away from you, I just have my own philosophy on video games in general. I think things are most fun when players earn things the right way. If we were all level 90 we wouldn't even play the game at all because it would be way too easy.

I was talking to Phil and Kingen about these same issues and they said they agree with me 100%. Phil raised a great point when he said he spends real money on every boss fight so he wants to have the highest chance to get the frag because he is spending real cash. I probably spend $0.50 to $1 per boss fight on consumable items, and I would guess Phil is spending a few dollars per fight with all the potions he buys. I know you burn through a lot of potions and if you are ok with spending real money so that people you may not really know and are contributing a lot less can get the reward, then that's a generous gesture of you. I'm glad you do it because you've probably helped more people on Epona than anyone and thats a great thing. Because your in that position, I think you are expecting everyone to live up to your generous standards. We can't all do that.

Of the current roster I probably recruited half of them in the catacombs and spent hours there helping them train and become some of the most powerful members such as Phil is. I gave advice, free items, and healing while they trained for hours upon hours for them to catch up. Since the update I have helped a bunch of new people join and i've been focusing the majority of my time on lower level members of Watch List who are just good people.

The game can change for the better, and i'm sure you have very valuable insight from your previous mmo experience. I respect your opinion because I understand that you know what you're doing. However when you say things that are flat out wrong and insulting, i'm gunna call you out on it like I would do to anyone else in the world.
1) You call me out for talking about the boss issue. The next post he says the boss issue is whats making him feel disrespected, and he never says anyone was rude or truly disrespectful to him.
2) You give me no credit for helping so many members and bringing them to the clan, whereas you are quick to flip on me for having a valid and logical opinion on just one issue, which is some boss fights.
3) You basically call the Watch List a failure when it has done nothing but good. What has it done besides good? I've helped several members in it train up and then join our clan to increase our ranks. I've played with a ton of great players who dont whine and just wanna have some fun, and maybe one day join the black watch. Some of them have thanked me and really appreciated the time i spent with them helping and have told me so. But apparently i'm just a selfish greedy guy who wants to punch old ladies in the face. Do you even have a character in the black watch? I log into mine nearly as much as my main character and my main goal on there is helping out lower levels.

I didn't make this clan, nor do I think it is a failure. Shag made the clan with the idea of it being an elite clan, so logically it would be a smaller more select group. We could easily be like legends with a thousand members and never have mature personal conversations because the clan chat is always flooded. Your ideas remind me of politics, a candidate may have genuinely sincere and noble goals, but to implement them would cause another slew of problems.

My idea of the perfect elite clan would be mostly level 40s, less level 50s, less level 60, etc. And the members of the level groups help each other with occasional help from very high levels so they can experience the game as it was designed for them for the best gameplay. We dont have enough diverse people right now for that. Devs are gunna open up worlds eventually, so I hope we can get a lot more people in and make the clan more active. In any online game I play most of the people I knew from the beginning eventually quit. Our problem is that we dont have new players coming in to replace them. A lot of old members got fed up with the wait for the update and moved on before we were even out of the catacombs. You can't blame the clan, its set up a certain way because thats how it is. If its not to your liking then you can suggest change, which you have never done (except contrary to what you are saying here) before this post.You have some good points but you can't blame me or other members who want to do stuff on their own every now and then. The problem is that there arent enough people in the clan of the same mid level to help each other so the mid level guys can feel left out. I've seen Phil, Kingen, and Ian come up together and help each other out. K1ng doesnt really have that little mid level clique as far as I can tell, so I see why he may feel left out sometimes. Its a flaw, but we can fix it by training up the lower levels like ive been doing. You can create your own clan, or talk to Shag about opening up the clan to more people which you can help, its your prerogative.

K1ng, i do remember saying closed to you once because the boss fight was like halfway done and nobody should just jump in when everybody else has already done most of the work. A lot of us spend real money because we like the challenge and to compete and thats how we enjoy a game.

I wrote this kinda tipsy just getting in at 5 am so excuse me if its rant-ish or incoherent in parts.

Wow, I'm leaving this clan.

You are not listening to my point. I said we need to either be an elite clan or stop taking in low levels. Because this is a problem whether you see it or not. Low levels like this can't follow us to the boss hunts nor do they have enough people to level with because they are in watch list. The whole point wasn't even pointed just at you BK it was the whole damn clan and where it is going. This clan can't decide what it wants and the members are leaving.

I don't know why the hell you're getting so angry, bitter, and mouthy. This clan has become a drama filled waste of time because of it has people acting greedy little unfathomable's and whiney babies because of a frag that will eventually get you armor that is just a different color shade than the current ancient armor.

So excuse me if WE, BOTH OF US, are fed up with it. Your whole attitude in this thread proves my whole point burgerking. I never claimed you have never helped anyone in the game. I don't even know what the hell you are talking about. MY WHOLE POINT IN MY THREAD WAS WHAT THE HELL ARE LOW LEVELS DOING IN THE BLACKWATCH- AND IF WE LET THEM IN WHY ARE WE NOT GETTING THEM HELP- BECAUSE YES THEY ARE GETTING MAD AND LEAVING. WE HAVE A SIMPLE SOLUTION: WATCH LIST.

By the way, Cora and me have been talking to kingawesome and others about this for a few weeks BK so we kinda know what the hell is going on and we have seen it progress. So yes while everything is going great in some of your little bubbles, no the clan is not doing good.

Furthermore, I would personally argue that Cora has been treated the same damn way. Since these boss runs she is hardly EVER let in the groups and has earned maybe 1 or 2. You guys going to treat a damn healer like that? You ever wonder why she stopped going on runs and why you and phil had to start buying potions? Think of that. But you know what, neither of us complained.

This isn't just me, cora, kingawesome.. look around. See blackwatches going afk all the time now. That's not what the blackwatch was founded on. The blackwatch was founded on respect for our clan members and not taking advantage of them. This clan wasn't about greed. It wasn't about the drops. Half of the time I see people just standing around waiting for boss fights. Most people don't log in anymore. Selling frags to members. Just the other day, like friday I had to start telling people off in the clan because they started arguing and wouldn't stop about which damn boss to kill first. Then ten minutes later when that was over they started arguing about who was going to be let in the group. ONCE AGAIN... I told them to knock the crap off. Blackwatch was a fun clan and sadly it's not anymore. Look around, if you don't see it now you will soon.

By the way did you really just claim I have never suggested change? I was here in blackwatch before you were. I helped build blackwatch and I'd like to think I helped make it what it is. I may not be very vocal sometimes but I see plenty ideas of mine on the forums here and on general board. I've recruited people too and kicked them. I kick started the process to get this clan helping noobs back in the catacomb days. You can go read the thread on the forums I asked all of our clan to go up on top to the surface to help low levels. I started boss raids back in those catacomb days too. I've suggested making a facebook group- shot down. I started the idea of a pal group and shared it- no one joined. Just look at the forums- I got the Epona board active again. Most have been written by me. Additionally I convinced Cora to start a new druid instead of rogue. I gave her that idea and it was for her enjoyment AND the clan. So burgerking after everything I really take offense to that comment. You may not see everything I do and say but I AM a part of blackwatch and have worked with Shag and others in the background. After-all, I'm here for the clan, not the frags... I've made that part obvious BK (I give all mine away for free).

Are you really so blind to see that nothing has changed? We had occasionally problems back in the day but it is nothing like it was. Anything in the catacombs that was dropped was given for free to guildmates. Help was being given everywhere.

I do really think your greed is showing with your little argument that buying plat should earn you the best chance at frag. Really man? That's what this clan has come to? And no it should not man. Do you think I started buying plat for potions way back when to get hammered redclaw? No I did it to tank for the clan and I was sick of dying. I buy plat and I give those stupid frags away, I don't see your or phils point. And if you are right, what about Shag? He's the damn cheif and where's his "pie"? While I'm one of the few around that thinks plat buyers should get an advantage... I think you're argument is crossing the line.

And no I don't have a character in watch list I told Shag I didn't support it and argued for one clan- but was shot down.

Next time please post with some sort of sense and read my whole argument. If you're drunk and it's 5am... you probably need to watch your mouth so you don't alienate someone from the clan... Just a thought.

These long winded rants are not helping anything lads. In fact they are making things much worse, and I am at the point where I can't even figure out what anyone is saying anymore.

This is the last thing that I am saying about this and I hope that everyone involved can hear what I am trying to say...

All that I wanted to do in this thread was wish KingAwesome well and tell him he was welcome to return if he ever wanted too. Somehow this thread became a dispute between you two. This dispute, I might add, has been blown out of proportion and I do not appreciate that it is being overgeneralized as if it is a CLAN issue. This is something that is quite obviously between certain members who need to sort out their beefs or just drop it and let bygones be bygones. The clan is not without its problems, but I don't have the time to micro manage every aspect of how the clan operates. I set up rules to guide everyone down a fair, fun, and honorable path - but I have no way to monitor everyone's behavior, nor do I have any real way to enforce them. All I want is for people to enjoy themselves as much as possible, and to be as pleasant to each other as they can.

BK you are entitled to your opinion and I appreciate all the help that you have provided. That being said, you have written a few things that are less than kind to some present, past, and from the looks of it, soon-to-be past members and I think that apologizing would be a good first step. I appreciate your frankness, but you also need to learn to be a bit more diplomatic, especially when dealing with younger members of the clan.

Jezzy, I also appreciate your opinions and help, but I also think that you are getting little too worked up over some of these problems and may have said a few things here that would have been better left unsaid. I appreciate your generosity with respect to your time, money spent and sharing of spoils but you could also stand to be a bit more diplomatic.

Both of you are overreacting and not acting in a manner I would expect ADULTS to act. Calm the funk down, make amends or don't, but just stop this bickering. If this rubs anyone the wrong way, I am sorry. Then take ten deep breaths, have a beer and relax.

Anywho, I hope that at least some of my points get across here. And remember Papa Shaggadelic loves all his children, he just wishes that you didn't fight so much...

(Group hug anyone?)

IT IS JUST A GAME PEOPLE, THERE SHOULD NOT BE THIS MUCH GRIEF OVER IT!

I am done with this conversation, hope you boys can work it out or be big enough to let it go. Good luck KingAwesome, best wishes.

In the end this is just a game and people play it for different reasons, but the point is that we're supposed to be having fun.

I have no problem whatsoever with Jezzy and I hope he knows that. I clearly said he is one of the most generous and and helpful people I have ever met in any game. In the order of people who have helped this clan and made it a great clan, I put both Shag and Jezzy above myself.

There are problems here, I guess we just disagree on what is the source of them. There's no low level vs high level feud. I've been in groups, and even invited lower levels to these groups, that fought bosses. My point was that if a tight knit group wants to go on a boss run every now and then with a smaller group then usual, it should not be a problem, that's all. I would say 95% of lower levels haven't complained about this to my knowledge. The only people who have openly complained about it are k1ng and MI. MI was ejected after she was in a boss fight group and was apparently getting too aggressive, from what i've heard and seen.

I'm not angry in any way, I'm just blunt and felt like you came out against me without even talking to me first about why I was annoyed or how you felt. We have been friends for like 4 months and we came up in this game together, literally level by level. I've defended both you are Cora no matter what the issue. You mention Cora not getting into boss fight groups, but when there's room I always try to get you and her in provided you guys actually wanna participate. I remember she came on a few weeks ago and said you guys both are getting tired of people volunteering you guys for boss fights, which is why you guys barely play anymore, so I myself have tried to always be respectful if I ask if you guys are interested in participating. She has said herself that I am like her big brother, and I have never acted in less of a capacity towards her or yourself.

Finally, your clan split argument. I said last post there wouldnt be a problem if there were just more players and I believe that. But there's not. There's a bunch of level 80s and a group of 45-60. Its not working. On that point I totally agree with you and if that is your biggest problem, then we might just be on the same page after all. The only discussion yourself and I have ever had regarding that was talking about the level cap. We were both agreeing it would be level 70. Other than that when we spoke we usually just joked around and talked about personal stuff, you didn't really discuss with me what you were saying here. My solution to the problems was to make the Watch List. I thought if the BW was level 70 and up everyone could participate in pretty much everything together, and the WL would be open for everyone else to train. If we had hundreds of members in the WL and help them train there, eventually they would graduate to the BW and join us at the top. I've graduated several new helpful members already such as Alexxxx and Rogal, who have both been friendly and helpful.

I dont wanna be misunderstood here. I've bought frags from people, and even given some away for free, but i've NEVER sold them for gold. You say that drops in the cats were given away for free, but what did you do with your first Hammered Redclaw? You kept it right? I dont know what you mean by greed when I keep the frags I need and have given away most of the rest. I've also given my spot away in full groups to people who needed to defeat the bosses.

In the end this is just a fun time wasting phone game that is getting its stuff together, and getting boring quick so there's a lot of frustration. To be completely honest, I try to help the clan when I can, but to me help is based on relationships. I'd rather help you, Cora, Shag, Phil, Eve, Kingen, Cloud, Warrior, or other people who I chat with a lot and have built a rapport with, than some random person just because they have the word "TheBlackWatch" above their head. There are people in the clan who I don't like because they are selfish and never help anyone, and I know there are people you dislike as well, so I dont believe we are obligated to just blindly help everyone the same way. I am open to your proposal for change because their are problems. I'm not perfect and I don't know what is going on with everyone, because as in this case, some people just flat out dont tell me. I've been working over 60 hours a week lately because I have a full timer plus my own startup company, so maybe I'm a little out of touch with what is going on? I am not adverse to admitting that I don't have all the answers or know everything. I don't. But the fact is i'm always willing to have an open mind and listen to suggestion from you and others in a drama free way, because games aren't worth any drama at all.

So long ...

I'm lucky I have already read it half month before. lol

It's really hard to talk abouth this topic ...

I may say sth about it in my thread.

I agree with Jezzy as a level 48 I received almost no help from most of the BW and spent lots of time helping smaller levels and recidved little respect and that's why I left the Watch List

Well, this is also another reason why i have left TBW at that time.

Jezzy and Bk had a big fight here. And Jezzy has quitted with the best and nicest druid Cora ...