Celtic Heroes

The question is more fundemental. Most people who want gun control don't believe in God. Most who want gun rights protected do.

You can't convince someone with logic when their fundemental belief system is the cause of their position.

A belief which is based on opinions and a book written thousands of years ago... But I digress, I don't judge based on religion despite my disagreeing with it. I do however judge based on political stance

I don't think you understand the circumstances around the constitution when it was made. Times have changed. Laws made 250 years ago can't apply to modern times. Do the rights have to be completely eliminated? No. Do they have to be changed to face the current need of the county? Yes (stricter control)

Once again, I will refer you to Thomas Payne and the Federalist Papers, it will put the constitution into current context. People dont know history, the constitution was about the fundamentals of society. The originators of the constitution were not concerned with hunting or whether or not King George had muskets. The first 10 amendments also known as the bill of rights were put into the constitution for the citizens protection, these amendments are more special to the citizenry because it prevents the government from doing these things. The reason why we are not a British colony now. Just read the federalist papers and then talk to me about the constitution and what the founding fathers intended.

The question is more fundemental. Most people who want gun control don't believe in God. Most who want gun rights protected do.

You can't convince someone with logic when their fundemental belief system is the cause of their position.

I am shocked at this post . It makes no sense to me whatsoever , such a sweeping comment and utterly ridiculous .

A belief which is based on opinions and a book written thousands of years ago... But I digress, I don't judge based on religion despite my disagreeing with it. I do however judge based on political stance

Your belief system is the foundation for your opinions. You do not believe that there are specific rights that are inherent to man given by God, because you don't believe in such a thing. You believe that times change and thus so do the rights of man or how governments manage the population change to adapt to the changing times. The concept of inalienable rights is that man does not change. We have new technology but we are just as noble and devilish as we have always been. Trends change, social norms move like a pendulum but man is what he is. Right and wrong are defined not to be rewritten as ou see fit. The social state of first world countries are historic. For example, The romans went through the same phases we are going through now. They did not survive. We either learn from history or repeat it.

Dam, I thought with this post I would get like 5 pages at the MOST...never thought I would get 14 lol but anyway glad to see people debating on this subject. And I think I can safely say everyone agrees on stricter gun laws

people under the influence of a an opiate, or hallucinogen do not commit murder. when they are sober and looking for a fix they might

Then drugs are just as dangerous. Look, many common street drugs are illegal, right? Then how do people get them so easily? The same with weapons. They can be smuggled also so if you take weapons away from legally purchasing owners, the only people with weapons are the criminals and the police. Also, its not just about the weapons, if we submit, to such a traitorous act to our founding fathers, what will that say about our respect to them. They spilled their blood for us and we just let our current leaders trample all over them. How do you think this country won its independence? By ordinary citizens (with weapons) stepping up to defend their rights. What do you think would happen if this right we've had for 200+ years, is suddenly taken away? Do you really think, gun owners will just lay down and give up? Doubt it. And you would be surprised how many staunch gun right supporters there are all over the country.
PS- Pig, iminterested in buying one of those minor wyrmtail bracelets

Stricter gun laws dude , not bust in ya house and take your gun away .

Yea sorry i forgot to specify. I was kinda referring to New York State trying to outlaw anything with a magazine over 7 rounds. The problem is, of the murders committed with firearms, less then 20 were committed with a rifle with a magazine capacity of 7 rounds or more. Yes I do want stricter laws when purchasing, but dont restrict what can be bought.

There are ways to prevent gun accidents. You can actually keep a loaded gun in the house and have it be safe. You can buy a small gun safe to put next to your bed with a hand print lock so you can open it in the dark. Very kid safe, no trigger locks needed, no fumbling in the dark.

Of course there are, Papi. I don't doubt that at all. I do believe that most American legal gun owners store their weapons safely, and are careful with their weapons. Sandy Hook, the incidents after Sandy Hook, and the shooting in California, however, point to the fact that some guns aren't being stored properly. How does an elementary student get his parent's gun to take to school? How does a high school student get his brother's shotgun?

Beyond headline cases, an average of about 700 deaths (on top of about 23,000 accidental injuries) suggests that a fair number of people do not treat their guns with respect.

Compare this to Canada in relation to our gun regulations. Gun laws in Canada stepped up in 1991 (most important was regulating how guns and ammunition could be stored). At that time accidental gun deaths averaged about 70 per year. Now they average 40 per year... a decrease of 43%.

Accounting for population, Canada and the States were roughly the same in 1990... Regulating Canadian guns, however, has had the effect of saving lives.

That gun box you mentioned sounds interesting. I agree with you that it sounds kid safe to a degree... it prevents kids from gaining access to the gun. It doesn't, however, make you less likely to make a mistake in the middle of the night.

The way you describe it points back to my original post... you are buying into the fear factor of American crime. I think it is highly unlikely that you would face a burglar in the middle of the night. Most home invasions happen during the day when no one is home.

Even in countries with strict gun laws there are murders. Removing guns does not prevent crime. Violent people will just find another way to do it. I live in Oklahoma. Timothy McVay did a great job with a rider truck and fertilizer. I am a huge gun rights guy but I recognize oversight needs to be in place. So, when I am king this is what will happen:
...

Of course this is true. America, however, has some other issues that aid in the problem. The same way that neither fertilizer, racing fuel, nor Ryder trucks are overly dangerous on their own, you are unfortunately aware that they can be deadly when combined in the correct manner.

(I hope, btw, that you weren't personally affected in that attack, Papi.)

Yes, crime is crime and murder is murder. People do find other methods. We don't see the sheer numbers in other developed countries, however. America is in a league of its own.

The U.S has a lot of guns, questionable regulation, and homicide rate is at 4.7. Canada has a lot of guns, some regulations, and a homicide rate of 1.6. Japan has next to no guns, and a homicide rate of 0.4. Switzerland has a lot of guns and a lot of regulations. The homicide rate is at 0.7, with only 7 accidental deaths (this would be about 260 with America's population). Gun owners are trained initially, and go through yearly training in Switzerland. I will also point out that there has never been a school shooting in Switzerland. There have already been 8 in the States this year.

So ya... it isn't the guns themselves, but the mentality of gun owners (legal and illegal).

What is it about American society that allows this to be the case? I don't like comparing the States to Japan or Switzerland for various reasons... but why are Canada and America so drastically different? By all accounts, we should be very similar. We have a shared history, shared culture, and are on the same landmass.

I would argue that our differences come down to a few things that really separate us:

1. How we respectively gained independence
2. The American belief in Manifest Destiny and the Turner Thesis
3. The 2nd Red Scare and Containment theory
4. Canada's adoption of semi-socialist policies
5. Gangs.

But that's beside the point. You guys just gotta stop killing each other.

I agree with some of your ideas, Papi. I have no problem with gun owners like you and derp: those who accept that the addition of some regulation can make the ownership of guns more safe.

Be careful about the word king, though Papi. Remember the whole issue of gun rights is because of the fear of the king

Gangs aren't as big in the USA as 10 years ago. On doing some research on gang related gun murders, the uk has more per capita than the states as many parts of the uk have become mob rule on the streets. However the total gun crime per capita (gang and not) is less than half of that in the states