Celtic Heroes

The splash page is the first impression pig, many people will simply delete it if they see something like that as a first impression. Especially for a 9 year old child.

I understand that, and yes maybe otm should be changing this considering their strict rules on equality and so on. Would be nice to get an opinion from Lauren the only female employee i know of :p

It's a simple fix for the splash page. Just adjust the art by adding a bit more to the top of the bp so you're not looking down her cleavage. OTM has no excuse for not fixing this.

And btw, Pig, i got news for you. YOU are a feminist. Thanks to you and Lukov for your support.

Lol, i prefer to call myself equalist as there are a lot of unpleasant femenists out there who think men are scum etc. but my original viewpoint still stands, that changing an already tame game to appease a minority based on their religion is wrong as they have access to the clothing that would cover everything they require covered

Love how it's a bunch of men posting their thoughts on how this game objectifies women?
I may not be particularly religious, but I was raised religiously and understand some people have strict views on how things should or shouldnt be. But this is taking it a bit too far, otm is not responsible for catering to everyone's religious views and from what I've seen I wouldn't call any of this overly objectifying. Sure the splash page is at a slightly awkward angle, but it isn't blatantly sexual in and of itself. Even the 'females' who run around castle naked, if you've noticed the 'underwear' is high rising and 'bra' has more coverage than alot of people's bikinis. I've never had an issue with people in game making rude and sexual comments because I'm female, and the randoms who do in castle and such are easily blocked. If you've got problems with low level noob gear, go finish the ragged quest real fast. If your religion objects to playing games where other toons might decide to walk around showing more than you're comfortable with, maybe this isn't the right game for you.

Love how it's a bunch of men posting their thoughts on how this game objectifies women?
I may not be particularly religious, but I was raised religiously and understand some people have strict views on how things should or shouldnt be. But this is taking it a bit too far, otm is not responsible for catering to everyone's religious views and from what I've seen I wouldn't call any of this overly objectifying. Sure the splash page is at a slightly awkward angle, but it isn't blatantly sexual in and of itself. Even the 'females' who run around castle naked, if you've noticed the 'underwear' is high rising and 'bra' has more coverage than alot of people's bikinis. I've never had an issue with people in game making rude and sexual comments because I'm female, and the randoms who do in castle and such are easily blocked. If you've got problems with low level noob gear, go finish the ragged quest real fast. If your religion objects to playing games where other toons might decide to walk around showing more than you're comfortable with, maybe this isn't the right game for you.

Longcool is a woman i belive :p

"There are more modest fashion outfits you can choose to wear. You don't have to wear anything that makes you uncomfortable."
Two problems with this argument. First, there is no choice at game entry. You wear what the entry-level warrior, rogue, etc wears. This is my current major complaint in beta. It is those armors that are uncovering a lot more than before. And new players dont have the money or knowledge to go find more modest clothing. Second, the NPCs' clothing is chosen by game designers. And they are wearing less and less. Which means that the game designers are giving tacit approval to sexual objectification. This last point is supported by the apparent failure of OTM Support to do anything about sexual character names or players who sexually harrass other players. Doing nothing to stop it gives tacit approval.

"So what? It's just a little skin. It makes the women pretty, and I don't see how it hurts anything."
Sexual objectification leads directly to sexual harassment. Ask any female player. Or any male player with female avatar. Heck, make a new female avatar yourself and see how quickly and how often you are chatted up, propositioned to be someone's "girlfriend" or directly asked (or ordered!) to perform sexual acts. That is why it's a problem. Any game where women and girls feel they are not safe is not treating its female players with respect.

OTM is engaging in sexual objectification, and it needs to stop.

I'm just responding as another female, I've never felt unsafe, or sexually harrassed - make a new female, or even have a female toon that's all fashioned out. . .even fashioned modestly you still have idiots asking you to be their girlfriend. The block button is there for a reason. Secondly, not all fashion is unaffordable and hard to find - I had ragged fashion at lvl 7 or so, as those lovely mobs outside of crookback drop cloth scraps. A small minority is being overly sensitive, this is an mmo. . .not a room with padded walls and child approved toys and a bubble to prevent anything from happening.

I'm not saying there might not be a valid point with asking to make toons less revealing, I just happen to think people are overreacting. Hadn't seen a post where a female came out and defended it yet.

Alyssandra, again yes we may be men (longcool isnt), but papi speaks for his wife, i speak for my ex (still good friends) the mormon and pig is just pig haha. There are a few different opinions against this here. Judging by your display picture, you're not a unpopular girl. You look like you might even wear some revealing outfits (no offence, just a point to make) usually people who wear these types of outfits have no problems with others wearing them. Especially rolemodels, advertisements and games targeted towards a young audience.

Im refering towards the young audience at the moment, when they start playing, they have nothing but their starting armour, weapons and they are given things to kill. They arent told about shops or sidequests for armours. These people wont get new armour usually until it drops due to most of these being expensive at their level. Even the ragged fashion armour shop isnt available for beginners, they cannot change their armour. This is one of the objectifying points needed to be addressed. The splash shot on the other hand cannot be changed, through gameplay. How would you stop a child from viewing this? Stop them playing.

Christianity isnt a strict religion, neither are most of them, but there are some large groups of religions that do oppose objectification of females, such as any low cut, stomach showing, knee showing outfits. I dont doubt that a large player base do play but havent seen the picture.

And then longcools point, that women are being basically show as raunchy players ready to be harassed, of course this is hard to stop but its easier to limit by limiting the amount of skin shown.

In the beginning people are given mobs to 'kill'. . .murder is against most religions and laws right?

Getting into an mmo, a young audience is already exposed to a variety of things - killing, manner of dress, other people's chat, perverts, people who pretend to be one thing but are another, competition, exclusion.

It's an mmo - not a safe bubble for people of all religious views.

If it is against your religion, don't play?

Love how it's a bunch of men posting their thoughts on how this game objectifies women?

Longcool is a woman i belive :p

I am. And I personally think we need more men to notice sexism, if we are ever going to tackle it as a social problem.

It's great that you don't have a serious concern about sexualization in this game. That, however, does not obviate my or Papi's concern.

You're right. We can stop playing if and when we get too uncomfortable. To be honest, thats not the point. The point of this thread is to tell OTM that they are alienating some of their players and why we feel this way. I dont know what proportion of the players are religious conservatives or feminists or parents or women, but if OTM keeps going down this path, they are going to lose more and more players and it will be problem. As i understand it, women are the fastest growing segment of the gaming population. OTM will lose out on the exponential growth that is predicted if women--even just some--decide they are just too uncomfortable in this game. Other games will court us and be happy to take our money.

Papi... The genius...