Celtic Heroes

Faster Cooldowns on offensive abilities, is in essence, more damage.

I am not against faster cooldowns on heals. It would probably make red bosses more managable for groups rather than making a tank chug pots.

I guess I question why you think you should be able to damage AND heal. If the druid community as a whole believes that focus is useless when you have rejuv/warden gear and str does not help your damage, I'd assume you'd pump your stats fully into vitality. There is no way I'd two shot you with your 3k+ health. Similarly, I don't have 3k health. In order to do the damage I desire, I have to have 1k health at most; meaning I'd have to do at least 3 times your damage output to kill you. That doesn't even take into consideration the amount you've healed during that time frame.

It's not always about who does big hits, it's about who is left standing at the end of the fight.


What is your Nature Magic Skill?
Are both Lightning Strike and Vines Maxed?
What is your average Lightning Strike damage on a similar level mob?
What is your average Vines damage on a similar level mob?

I'd be interested to extrapolate this out and/or compare to other classes to see if you indeed have a severe disadvantage. Take a sample size of about 30-50 to get a basic average. You'd have to post your stats too in order to give a full picture. If you're truly interested to find whether it's a feeling or a true disadvantage, I'm game to help out.

>Stats<

Strength-10
Dexterity-50
focus-5
Vitality-400

>Skills<

Vines 15/15
Roots 17/17
Lightning 15/15
Touch 15/15
Embrace 15/15
Bark 15/15

My average melee skill with my Golden bodkin of spirits and metoric totem is probably around 63 the range is anywhere from 55-80
My average lightning strike is arround 150 and ranges anywhere from 130-350
My average vines is about 60 and ranges anywhere from 50-130

I havent played in a ehile but that on a mob my lvl and i wasnt asking for a quicker cooldown on damage spells just healing spells.

What is your Nature Magic Skill at?
Totem Skill?

>My Stats<

Str - 350
Dex - 5
Focus - 5
Vit - 120

HP ~ 1k

>Skills<

Quick Strike - 15/15
Hide - 17/17
Sneaky Attack - 15/15
Rend - 15/15
Psn Weapon - 15/15
Distract - 12/15
Bandage - 10/15

Cunning Skill - 923
Dagger Skill - 894

Hits all Depend on mobs; bosses are much lower, one stars are much higher. These numbers also require I keep Psn Weapon up at all times; I lose 1-2 auto dmg swings each time I cast Psn Weapon (usually every 3rd or 4th cycle of Quick Strike).

Auto Attack does 100-250 average of 190
Quick Attack does 250-450 with average of 400
Rend does initial hit of 70-400 with average of 160
Sneaky does 200-600 with average of 400 (can't use while solo unless using hide. Also can't tell you how many mobs others have "stolen" while I am in the midst of casting hide).

I am wearing the Connacht Pathfinder gear for +dmg, the Bloodlust helm, winterking dagger, and the heroic bodkin of spirits.

I have just about every Best in Slot item for rogues, I am 4 levels higher than you and I'm around 300% of your damage; maybe a bit above. I am interested to see what your Nature Magic and Totem skills are as those seem to play almost as much of a role in damage as the damage modifer does. I can't solo Masters in this spec without using pots because my health is so low. I think it would be a decent match between you and I if we were able to PvP. I assume you are wearing Warden gear, which has a bunch of resistances. I am not wearing any resist gear, which hurts even more. Fast killing is my strategy to survival. If I dont take down my foe quickly, I'm pretty much screwed lol.

Low end you do 235 to each creature
Low end I do 620 to each creature

My damage compared to yours in Percentage: 263.8%

High end you do 560 to each creatures
High end I do 1700 to each creature

My damage compared to yours in Percentage: 303.5%

With the best in slot gear for damage, and more levels/skills, I hit for a basic average of 283.7% of your damage. Being that your health is I'm guessing more than 300% of mine, it seems close. Albeit, there are other variables including your ability to root, if an interrupt occurs, CDs, when you heal, if I can survive long enough to blast through your heal, etc. It'll be interesting to see how update 3 heals affect druid HPS, but I am guessing your heals wouldn't be enough provided I resist or get through root somehow. A faster cooldown ON HEALS may be warranted, but probably not by much. I imagine if I do get rooted, I'm dead in the water.

Do remember than each server does not have many winterking weapons; our server had a ton of icelord staves. YUCK!

I guess I question why you think you should be able to damage AND heal. If the druid community as a whole believes that focus is useless when you have rejuv/warden gear and str does not help your damage, I'd assume you'd pump your stats fully into vitality. There is no way I'd two shot you with your 3k+ health. Similarly, I don't have 3k health. In order to do the damage I desire, I have to have 1k health at most; meaning I'd have to do at least 3 times your damage output to kill you. That doesn't even take into consideration the amount you've healed during that time frame.

You really do make a fantastic point here. But the thing about survivability is that it is not needed when I see players only being hit for damage three times in a fight and regaining health by the next mob. Whereas I get hit 3x the mount, going by your 300% rough estimation, and no where near regaining full health by next mob and have the heal in between each fight.

In pvp the battle will be close with you, a rogue, but a ranger with bolas? We are done. A tank, who more hp and damage than us? We are done. Rogue and Mage will seem close, but also remember, we can only heal if we are not interrupted. We can not interrupt your damage. So that lowers our survivability and increases your overall damage output.

Druids need to stop crying.

I mean seriously it's pathetic.

You can ROOT the rogue, what exactly is he gonna do after that?

Not to mention I have 3.2k health and you throw on a wolf helm with resistance to their weapon and you can easily PWN them if you have enough skill to use your head and not your QQ.

I am so sick of seeing Druids cry on these forums. We can solo bosses, rogues can't! Sure we get KS'd and lvling up a rogue is easier than lvling a Druid, but with good reason, a Druid is SUPER powerful.

Druids don't exactly need better dps, but they do need a touch of rebalancing with weapons that contribute to their skills sets, which is coming in update 3.

@Nodnarb

What I have against OnC is yer not explaining it accurately you are mixing a Divine Monk and a Military Monk. A Divine Monk can't DPS worth anything but they are fantastic healers and a military monk is sick DPS but can't Divine Breath their mana pool, so they run outta mana, also even their 15 second invulnerability is stun able, so you can stun them and retreat to a distance that when they come out of stun they literally have to runto you and by that time the shield is down. You also didn't mention that the invulnerable shield brings you down to 1HP. My point is you either don't know or didn't describe the OnC healer. A true OnC healer can't DPS to save their life. And thus takes a long time to lvl.

Even a Hybird Monk using some DPS and some healing, a better lvling Monk, is fun but doesn't have what yer talking about either. I simply don't think you know enough about that game's healing classes to comment on what CH needs to copy. No offense.

Druids need to stop crying.

I mean seriously it's pathetic.

You can ROOT the rogue, what exactly is he gonna do after that?

Not to mention I have 3.2k health and you throw on a wolf helm with resistance to their weapon and you can easily PWN them if you have enough skill to use your head and not your QQ.

I am so sick of seeing Druids cry on these forums. We can solo bosses, rogues can't! Sure we get KS'd and lvling up a rogue is easier than lvling a Druid, but with good reason, a Druid is SUPER powerful.

Druids don't exactly need better dps, but they do need a touch of rebalancing with weapons that contribute to their skills sets, which is coming in update 3.

@Nodnarb

What I have against OnC is yer not explaining it accurately you are mixing a Divine Monk and a Military Monk. A Divine Monk can't DPS worth anything but they are fantastic healers and a military monk is sick DPS but can't Divine Breath their mana pool, so they run outta mana, also even their 15 second invulnerability is stun able, so you can stun them and retreat to a distance that when they come out of stun they literally have to runto you and by that time the shield is down. You also didn't mention that the invulnerable shield brings you down to 1HP. My point is you either don't know or didn't describe the OnC healer. A true OnC healer can't DPS to save their life. And thus takes a long time to lvl.

Even a Hybird Monk using some DPS and some healing, a better lvling Monk, is fun but doesn't have what yer talking about either. I simply don't think you know enough about that game's healing classes to comment on what CH needs to copy. No offense.

You say no offence but never actually mean it every post i read of yours is crying about how others cry. Atleast we try to change what we feel is better for our class. We are not surper powerful we just live longer. And now with the current update soloing impossible cause someone with 40 idols and some healthpotions can now walk up atack with one hit topple our damage die come back and do it all over again auntil its dead giving them the kill while i take the brunt of the damage. Not asking for a nuke spell just a bumpin the over damage witch is happening in the update that was confirmed recently its not something that we always knew was gunna happen. Further more I dont play a monk but no one in a pvp match focusing on trying to stun the enemy and backing up so they have to run. Also a monk has sick range with thier skills except maybe the melee skills. And i now pay a low lvl monk as full divine and i deal just the perfect ammount of damage im not mixing the two talent selections together i know what i am talking about. You have been playing this game for a short ammount of time and dont know the ammount of damage fuff that some classes got then others got nerfed you have to look at it from the point of view as every class feels that they are underpowered compared to another. But when you think about the real class that should be allowed to complain its druids. Even when you go all divine you deal a sgnificant ammount of damage and can heal large ammounts. thats a well balanced class if you ask me.

To whoever wanted to know my abilitied both are maxed.

Wait wait wait wait...

You're advocating for changes in CH to add features of a class from another game, a class in which you've barely even played?



AND

...We are not surper powerful we just live longer....

How is survivability not a powerful trait?


Not trying to be mean Nodnarb, but I think you need to reroll as a dps class if you want uber dps. Even the "bump in damage" won't be what you desire. You sound like you don't like that other players can DPS a mob faster than you can for a kill. Maybe you should be pushing for solutions that fix kill stealing rather than asking for more dps. More dps would just create further class imbalances. It's been shown throughout the history of all MMOs that it is hard to create a perfect class balance; there will always be players who play their classes better than others, regardless of balance. If players just demand Buffs and Nerfs to each class, you have no controled variables. Find the root of the issue and fix it there, without touching classes if possible. PvP is where class balance gets even trickier.

Problem solving 101:

1. Define and Identify the Problem
2. Analyze the Problem
3. Identifying Possible Solutions
4. Selecting the Best Solutions
5. Evaluating Solutions
6. Develop an Action Plan
7. Implement the Solution

You seem to be skipping straight to Step 6.

make focus also slightly increase elemental(non-physical) damage (effectively enough to notice a difference but not enough to make overpowered) and also increase the amount our heal spells, well, heal.

Hi there, thanks for the ideas, this has been implemented in the forthcoming update.

Thanks!

Wait wait wait wait...

You're advocating for changes in CH to add features of a class from another game, a class in which you've barely even played?



AND

...We are not surper powerful we just live longer....

How is survivability not a powerful trait?


Not trying to be mean Nodnarb, but I think you need to reroll as a dps class if you want uber dps. Even the "bump in damage" won't be what you desire. You sound like you don't like that other players can DPS a mob faster than you can for a kill. Maybe you should be pushing for solutions that fix kill stealing rather than asking for more dps. More dps would just create further class imbalances. It's been shown throughout the history of all MMOs that it is hard to create a perfect class balance; there will always be players who play their classes better than others, regardless of balance. If players just demand Buffs and Nerfs to each class, you have no controled variables. Find the root of the issue and fix it there, without touching classes if possible. PvP is where class balance gets even trickier.

Problem solving 101:

1. Define and Identify the Problem
2. Analyze the Problem
3. Identifying Possible Solutions
4. Selecting the Best Solutions
5. Evaluating Solutions
6. Develop an Action Plan
7. Implement the Solution

You seem to be skipping straight to Step 6.

1. Druids are well underpowered when it comes to damage making them utterly useless when it comes to a clan boss battle especialy with the new patch. Our heals arnt quick enough making t harder to keep the tank alive and the cooldown for our heals is quite long.
2. The problem is our main 2 offemsive spells are quite weak compared to any class making it quite difficult to kill as fast witch in thus makes it harder to lvl and useless in groups during boss fights because of the lack of damage. Witch isnt right to most high lvl druid who rely on bosses as thier main source of xp as do many other high lvls.
3. You could buff the main skill to do say a set damage rather than a range of damage. Decrease cooldown and cast time on drud heals.
4. Like i stated i would be personally happy with faste heals cause with the right equipment and as we lvl we get stronger thus dealing more damage.
5.When evaluating the two solutions many lower lvl druids and alot of solo druids would want damage but as a high lvl herler the best choice would be the cast amd cooldown rates.
6. its being developed as we speak.
7. its already being implemented.

I took some time to play my monk after that post to see if i could back up what i stated and yes i very well can the monks in that game have enough damage to efectivly take mobs down easily and still come out on top but they also have the abilitie to heal mid battle. They have a well balanced class for thse druids that wish to deal deal decent damage and heal. Then i bought a scroll and tryed military and even my low lvl the monk deals a tremendous ammount of damage but ant heal as well. If gives options which in itself makes it worth the try.

And then theres the staying alive longer. Every class has the skills to make themselves stay alive longer none know how to use it. no you may not be able to heal mid battle but you can slow thier speed if your a ranger push away agro to another if your a rogue worrors shouldnt taunt or if they obtain agro cast prostance which is a huge defence buff mages have energy shield and druids have heals and calm if anyone else is atacking. Every class has something to up thier servivol its just in how and when you use the skills that assist you. So its not a powerful trait its just easier for anyone who plays the druid to survive because its our main function. now think a little damage buff would increase the chance of survival.

by admin » Thu Feb 02, 2012 2:47 pm

Boudica wrote:
make focus also slightly increase elemental(non-physical) damage (effectively enough to notice a difference but not enough to make overpowered) and also increase the amount our heal spells, well, heal.

Hi there, thanks for the ideas, this has been implemented in the forthcoming update.

Thanks!

Does this mean i will have to start useing focus more cause well i guess i can spare 200 or 300 skill points out of health.

If there was 1 class that could do everything...then everyone would be THAT class

Classes all have pertinent weaknesses, that's the point. You need to have a serious weakness so you need other classes. That makes an interdependent class system. Survivability is a HUGE strength and in my opinion it's completely monopolized by the Druids. Yes, sure, classes have abilities to use to increase their defenses, but few to increase their health on the fly. Whereas all the skills you listed help the classes, none make them immortal in a Charfire or Crystalmist or Shimmerspell fight. After the low 80's these bosses can't kill a Druid,

The Druids don't really need anything more than what they have, they just need items that attribute to their skills, that's it. And it's coming next update. Situation solved.

I played OnC since release, and I played it for 9 months, The reason you feel like your OnC healer does the perfect amount of dmg is because OnC is EASY. outside of dungeons I mean, those I find to be fun and challenging if you don't have tons of experience with them.

(Now that said, I loved my first play thru of OnC, it was fun and it was a pleasure, the game itself is a pleasure when yer new to it and I am not trying to strip your fun or your enjoyment of it, but some facts need to be addressed)

Outside of dungeons you should uncommonly die ever vs a normal mob, even elite mobs are so killable that you often time have no little downtime you can kill over and over again before stopping. The game is so freaking easy that you can literally solo everything outside a dungeon until maybe the Elemental King, but that said even that is close.

Celtic Heroes isn't, it isn't easy. It takes a real amount of effort and planning and build to get a kill on a 3 star greater lvl'd mob especially in your early lvls when your skill build isn't as flushed out. That said, class interdependency (in CH) allows people to partner up and I love that. In OnC there is really no reason to group outside a dungeon. unless you are power lvl'ing a noob.

In terms of OnC PvP, movement is SUPER SUPER important. I can't tell you how important it is to a Monk in PvP, everyone who has skill doesn't button mash. They pick their stuns based on opponent casting bars and ability graphics and yeah relocation after a stun is integral because it makes your opponent move to hit you letting you time your next salvo.

Movement and positioning are the most important part of PvP ( in OnC and most game's for that matter) & Warriors naturally feel like they should just be allowed to stand still and hit you, you use this against them and move like crazy and get them off their comfortability, and they then mistime their skills and get pwned. It's PvP 101.

I hope as you enjoy OnC you will see what I am talking about, as you watch duels in Greenmont.

[Edit] I read your post too fast before and infer'd meaning that you weren't communicating so I cleaned up this post to reflect that. My apologies.