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Re: A discussion about religion

#241
You do not seem to be using the term evolution properly. It seems you are talking about different meanings of evolution as the same thing.

There are two types of evolution: Micro evolution and Macro evolution

Micro evolution is adaptation and changes WITHIN a species over time because of natural selection. An example would be a species of moth where some are born white and some are born brown. These moths like to sit on the bark of trees. because they brown moths blend in with the bark they are harder for predators to find and therefore are more likely to survive and reproduce than the white moths who are easy to find and eat. Over time this species becomes almost all brown moths if not completely brown because the brown moths have a much higher survivability rate. Micro evolution is accurate and observable and we know that it takes place, however micro evolution is only minor changes within a species and no new species is formed because the genetic information for the change was present from the beginning.

Macro evolution is similar to micro evolution in process but according to macro evolution over a very long period of time the species will actually "evolve" into an entirely new species because the genetic changes are actually attributed to positive mutations that were not originally present, but rather, randomly developed by chance and allowed the mutated strain of the species to have a higher survivability rate. Macro evolution requires an extremely extended period of time to occur (millions of years). Macro evolution cannot be observed by scientists and remains an unproven theory.

It is inaccurate to say evolution does not take place because micro evolution most certainly does on a micro scale within a species, however there is no evidence that proves macro evolution can occur.
The peppered Moth is what I was talking about before. It is a complete hoax and it is still taught in textbooks today as real.

http://www.museumofhoaxes.com/hoax/phot ... pered_moth

To discuss this is a waste of the forum readers time. To promote and teach it is treacherous.
maulz - warrior - level 195 - belenus - iPhone 7

Re: A discussion about religion

#242
You do not seem to be using the term evolution properly. It seems you are talking about different meanings of evolution as the same thing.

There are two types of evolution: Micro evolution and Macro evolution

Micro evolution is adaptation and changes WITHIN a species over time because of natural selection. An example would be a species of moth where some are born white and some are born brown. These moths like to sit on the bark of trees. because they brown moths blend in with the bark they are harder for predators to find and therefore are more likely to survive and reproduce than the white moths who are easy to find and eat. Over time this species becomes almost all brown moths if not completely brown because the brown moths have a much higher survivability rate. Micro evolution is accurate and observable and we know that it takes place, however micro evolution is only minor changes within a species and no new species is formed because the genetic information for the change was present from the beginning.

Macro evolution is similar to micro evolution in process but according to macro evolution over a very long period of time the species will actually "evolve" into an entirely new species because the genetic changes are actually attributed to positive mutations that were not originally present, but rather, randomly developed by chance and allowed the mutated strain of the species to have a higher survivability rate. Macro evolution requires an extremely extended period of time to occur (millions of years). Macro evolution cannot be observed by scientists and remains an unproven theory.

It is inaccurate to say evolution does not take place because micro evolution most certainly does on a micro scale within a species, however there is no evidence that proves macro evolution can occur.
he explains it. yes, species can change a little according to their environment. but not major change. and the peppered moth is a hoax.

Re: A discussion about religion

#243
ok, cells can change but thats not my point. we dont see anything changing today. how can we account the origin of all species from a couple little cells if we cant account for the origin of one fruit fly species from another fruit fly species? and how did the first cells begin in the first place? the oldest fossil bats still have sonar built in. and there is no fossils that indicate that there has been change.
Actually, the real proof is deep within the cell's nucleus which contains the DNA. Different species with similar DNA must have had a common ancestral species which separated into groups that eventually developed adaptations that set them apart from the main species. As the theory goes, of course.

Stanley Miller and Harold Urey actually proved that organic compounds can be synthesised from inorganic materials that would have been present in the atmosphere in early Earth. Water (H2O), Methane (CH4), ammonia (NH3), and hydrogen (H2) were subjected to those conditions which includes lighting (literally the spark of life, lol.) and were able to create several amino acids (used to make protein), sugars, etc.
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Re: A discussion about religion

#244
You do not seem to be using the term evolution properly. It seems you are talking about different meanings of evolution as the same thing.

There are two types of evolution: Micro evolution and Macro evolution

Micro evolution is adaptation and changes WITHIN a species over time because of natural selection. An example would be a species of moth where some are born white and some are born brown. These moths like to sit on the bark of trees. because they brown moths blend in with the bark they are harder for predators to find and therefore are more likely to survive and reproduce than the white moths who are easy to find and eat. Over time this species becomes almost all brown moths if not completely brown because the brown moths have a much higher survivability rate. Micro evolution is accurate and observable and we know that it takes place, however micro evolution is only minor changes within a species and no new species is formed because the genetic information for the change was present from the beginning.

Macro evolution is similar to micro evolution in process but according to macro evolution over a very long period of time the species will actually "evolve" into an entirely new species because the genetic changes are actually attributed to positive mutations that were not originally present, but rather, randomly developed by chance and allowed the mutated strain of the species to have a higher survivability rate. Macro evolution requires an extremely extended period of time to occur (millions of years). Macro evolution cannot be observed by scientists and remains an unproven theory.

It is inaccurate to say evolution does not take place because micro evolution most certainly does on a micro scale within a species, however there is no evidence that proves macro evolution can occur.
Well explained. There is actually evidence that macro evolution can occur but, again, it's in theory. You just have to keep an open mind.
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Re: A discussion about religion

#245
I do not understand how it is a hoax... It was just an example. Almost all the trees in the area had the same colour bark and, due to environmental conditions, changed to black or white. Yes, the moths were dead and placed on the tree for an easier understanding but the conditions still occurred. The populations of white versus black moths varied depending on the bark colour.

Obviously, the change was not as fast as some claim and neither colour of moth went completely extinct. There are always spall exceptions but the trend is still there.
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Re: A discussion about religion

#246
You do not seem to be using the term evolution properly. It seems you are talking about different meanings of evolution as the same thing.

There are two types of evolution: Micro evolution and Macro evolution

Micro evolution is adaptation and changes WITHIN a species over time because of natural selection. An example would be a species of moth where some are born white and some are born brown. These moths like to sit on the bark of trees. because they brown moths blend in with the bark they are harder for predators to find and therefore are more likely to survive and reproduce than the white moths who are easy to find and eat. Over time this species becomes almost all brown moths if not completely brown because the brown moths have a much higher survivability rate. Micro evolution is accurate and observable and we know that it takes place, however micro evolution is only minor changes within a species and no new species is formed because the genetic information for the change was present from the beginning.

Macro evolution is similar to micro evolution in process but according to macro evolution over a very long period of time the species will actually "evolve" into an entirely new species because the genetic changes are actually attributed to positive mutations that were not originally present, but rather, randomly developed by chance and allowed the mutated strain of the species to have a higher survivability rate. Macro evolution requires an extremely extended period of time to occur (millions of years). Macro evolution cannot be observed by scientists and remains an unproven theory.

It is inaccurate to say evolution does not take place because micro evolution most certainly does on a micro scale within a species, however there is no evidence that proves macro evolution can occur.
Well explained. There is actually evidence that macro evolution can occur but, again, it's in theory. You just have to keep an open mind.
what evidence? yes, there is evidence that cells can change but thats not proof of evolution. i have yet to see any proof. honestly, if you find any proof(which your not gonna) then reply. and i mean solid proof.

Re: A discussion about religion

#247
I do not understand how it is a hoax... It was just an example. Almost all the trees in the area had the same colour bark and, due to environmental conditions, changed to black or white. Yes, the moths were dead and placed on the tree for an easier understanding but the conditions still occurred. The populations of white versus black moths varied depending on the bark colour.

Obviously, the change was not as fast as some claim and neither colour of moth went completely extinct. There are always spall exceptions but the trend is still there.
the moths dont rest on tree trunks. they hide under leaves during the day. they had created an artificial situation.

Re: A discussion about religion

#248
ok, cells can change but thats not my point. we dont see anything changing today. how can we account the origin of all species from a couple little cells if we cant account for the origin of one fruit fly species from another fruit fly species? and how did the first cells begin in the first place? the oldest fossil bats still have sonar built in. and there is no fossils that indicate that there has been change.
Actually, the real proof is deep within the cell's nucleus which contains the DNA. Different species with similar DNA must have had a common ancestral species which separated into groups that eventually developed adaptations that set them apart from the main species. As the theory goes, of course.

Stanley Miller and Harold Urey actually proved that organic compounds can be synthesised from inorganic materials that would have been present in the atmosphere in early Earth. Water (H2O), Methane (CH4), ammonia (NH3), and hydrogen (H2) were subjected to those conditions which includes lighting (literally the spark of life, lol.) and were able to create several amino acids (used to make protein), sugars, etc.
A couple issues,
Firstly, simply because two species have similar DNA does not in any way mean they have a common ancestry. This is a faulty assumption and cannot be used in itself to reach any conclusion.

Secondly, the experiment you are referencing does not prove what you are saying it does.
It proves that intelligent design can create amino acids, yes. It does not give any support for random chance because it was carried out in the control of a lab by intelligent humans who were trying to get a certain result. Random chance was not involved.
You also need to understand something about amino acids first. Amino acids come in left-handed types and right handed-types. These two types are the same amino acid but they are an exact mirror of each other (like your right and left hands). The natural default is for these amino acids to exist in a 50-50 ratio, namely the same number of lefts and rights, but life uses ONLY left handed amino acids in the construction of its proteins. When a living organism dies, an interesting thing happens, half of the left-handed amino acids turn into right-handed amino acids.
This is relevant because when they conducted the experiment the amino acids immediately formed an equal mixture of lefts and rights. So, sadly, they did not make a representation of life. They actually made an example of death.

Though even if they did manage to create life in a lab, it does not support macro evolution.

Re: A discussion about religion

#249
ok, cells can change but thats not my point. we dont see anything changing today. how can we account the origin of all species from a couple little cells if we cant account for the origin of one fruit fly species from another fruit fly species? and how did the first cells begin in the first place? the oldest fossil bats still have sonar built in. and there is no fossils that indicate that there has been change.
Actually, the real proof is deep within the cell's nucleus which contains the DNA. Different species with similar DNA must have had a common ancestral species which separated into groups that eventually developed adaptations that set them apart from the main species. As the theory goes, of course.

Stanley Miller and Harold Urey actually proved that organic compounds can be synthesised from inorganic materials that would have been present in the atmosphere in early Earth. Water (H2O), Methane (CH4), ammonia (NH3), and hydrogen (H2) were subjected to those conditions which includes lighting (literally the spark of life, lol.) and were able to create several amino acids (used to make protein), sugars, etc.
of course there are species with similar DNA, but that doesn't mean that they had the same ancestors. yes, in certain conditions a mixture of gas with a lightning spark can make amino acids, but that is just the beginning to create life; if its the right kind. ^and the rest is said by the above reply^ (EdElric)

Re: A discussion about religion

#250
Ok, I realise simply stating that the DNA is similiar is not real proof but there is DNA "frozen in time" in specific places, such as ice sheets, of extinct species with similiar DNA and existed at a time before the current species, proved by carbon dating.

There is still other evidence as well such as fossil record of change in earlier species, the chemical and anatomical similarities of related life forms , the geographic distribution of related species, and the recorded genetic changes in living organisms over many generations. (http://anthro.palomar.edu/evolve/evolve_3.htm)

The miller-Urey experiment was designed to create natural conditions of early earth. Of course it would have to be controlled in order to isolate the early Earth variables from modern day variables. It may not prove a definite link but it certainly opens up the possibility. I know this is a wiki link but it would provide a better explanation: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miller-Urey_experiment
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