Celtic Heroes

I think you mistook my meaning when I said there are 7 bada who earned those drops. If you look at the current bada members only a few actually helped earn the drops pre-resurg. A couple were virtually inactive but I counted them. I dont think I need to pm you, there were two members kicked from bada I did not count them. They are back in now.

Dishonourable behaviour? Would a boycott of boss raid be counted as that? Would shamelessly lying to your chief be counted as dishonorable? The bank incident was not the first or only piece of dishonourable behaviour that day. Two wrongs do not make a right but the actions committed were a reaction.

You say our definitions of earned are different. I think you believe that those who put most effort into earning drops are still in bada. However they are the ones that were kicked, thus losing any right to drops.

By small minority I mean those bada members who chose to remain in bada. They got the aggy and hrung (end game boss) drops.

I would not call plan z a slight exacerbation, nobody else has gone to forum threatening war, warning people to stay off server. After some thought I believe people have simply continued bringing up the bank stuff because they live in the past; these are the people who said no to forgiveness and leaving the past behind.

I'll take a shot at this for ya, Roh. It may not be an accurate answer as it is just my opinion.

The whole 'Plan Z' thing, as I understand, was based on revenge. Revenge mainly in retaliation of the dl bank being taken to Res. While it was an immediate reaction to fresh wounds caused by the bank incident, once people cooled down about it the whole notion of a 'Plan Z' fell to the wayside.

Where the bank happens to be a recurring thing is due to the fact that it did happen. Whatever justification that anyone holds for who the bank should or shouldn't have gone to tends to make no sense to the other side as they hear it. Regardless of how people generally say that the other side is wrong when voicing their opinion on the matter, both sides of the arguement seem to bring it up for their own reasons. Everyone has seen the posts where Bada or supporters point out that it was wrong to have done so or the ones where Res and supporters will say that it isn't fair that Bada had it. Either way, as it was and is a polarizing issue, it keeps getting brought up.

Could be the right answer why or the wrong one. Just my opinion

Squid you bring me to the whole point of this thread. Im trying to show people that, if you can forget plan z, then why not forget the bank incident. Both happened and neither can be undone. The fact that plan z did not have a large impact is irrelevant, it still occurred.

The bank is not a polarizing issue, it is seen by some as one however. When people bring it up they do not think about what it really shows. Firstly, it is the action of a few. Only a small percentage of resurg even knew about it when they joined. How can someone be characterized by an action they had nothing to do with. Secondly it was not without a cause. We all know how and why bada broke up. In my opinion, the bank was not taken because the clan disagreed with the chief, but due to the way the clan showed this. The arena bs was a shambles, certain members, a couple are now bada leaders, were so rude and disrespectful I understand the events that followed.

The whole incident is overstated. I think people would have let it go if those items were left to rot, but they were given away to the very people they were originally kept from. Everyone knows that there came a point where bada stopped camping to gear up our own but to prevent others from obtaining drops. Now people cannot leave this incident behind and focus on the future. It seems that everyone talks about it but you shouldnt comment on it unless you actually helped build that bank.

After writing this it seems to me that the bank is brought up a lot as it is virtually the only half decent argument against resurg. If you dislike resurg, for whatever reason, you turn to it.

Maybe if we create a new clan and the entire resurg moves there, along with drops, it will all disappear. After all, people seem to only care about the clan name, they ignore the fact that it is the people that shape the clan, not the clan that shapes the people.

I don't disagree with you that the bank was not taken by Res, but instead by one or a few former members of Bada. The issue that I had, and maybe others did as well, was that after finding out that someone did something that they would consider underhanded if it happened to them, they are willing to follow that person. Suppose that a known scammer were to get an expensive lux item from someone you knew. If you turned around and bought that item from the scammer, your friend would probably consider you just as bad for knowing where it came from and how it was gotten.

Most of us know that guilt by association is often unreasonable. I don't think the situation was so much that, I think t was more a matter of by knowing you are condoning the actions of a few.

As far as the why it was taken, a leader leads. That's what they do. I hae seen instances where said leader was very disrespectful as well. Before anyone reads this and flames, by as well I mean in addition to the others that were said to be disrespectful. Point there is that one leads by example and insults beget insults. That's how it is. If someone can't handle leading by example they aren't a leader.

Why the bank built up is always going to be debatable. It could also be said that as members leveled, they would need items from it. I'm not going to look for the quote but, that reason has also been given for camping now.

Lastly, I do think you are right. I think if the Res name wasn't there and it was a new clan, there wouldn't be issues. Unless the leadership is the same. I think distrust for leaders is what's being held on to.

I think you mistook my meaning when I said there are 7 bada who earned those drops. If you look at the current bada members only a few actually helped earn the drops pre-resurg. A couple were virtually inactive but I counted them. I dont think I need to pm you, there were two members kicked from bada I did not count them. They are back in now.

Dishonourable behaviour? Would a boycott of boss raid be counted as that? Would shamelessly lying to your chief be counted as dishonorable? The bank incident was not the first or only piece of dishonourable behaviour that day. Two wrongs do not make a right but the actions committed were a reaction.

You say our definitions of earned are different. I think you believe that those who put most effort into earning drops are still in bada. However they are the ones that were kicked, thus losing any right to drops.

By small minority I mean those bada members who chose to remain in bada. They got the aggy and hrung (end game boss) drops.

I would not call plan z a slight exacerbation, nobody else has gone to forum threatening war, warning people to stay off server. After some thought I believe people have simply continued bringing up the bank stuff because they live in the past; these are the people who said no to forgiveness and leaving the past behind.

As far as I know, no one has been kicked from Bada at all in the last few months. However, there have been instances of people who left the clan, in "nerd rage," temporarily and they are currently in both clans.

If your definition is based on who put the most effort and camped on a regular basis, I think you will find that the majority is still present in Bada. Feel free to add names to either side but pre-resurgence was Bella, Asc, Wre, and I versus Katz and phur (who did wane quite a bit).

Boycotts are not dishonourable... It is actually quite an interesting mechanism which proves the power of the people or, in this case, the group of unhappy clan mates that were being ignored in order to protest in a peaceful manner. However, we can obviously see the result was not any compromise but it was difficult to draw attention to the issues in the first place.

What was the shameless lie to the chief?

At the point of Plan Z, there was already war. In fact, you could say there was war as soon as resurgence was created. The warning to stay off the server was pretty serious. Even now, Arawn just does not have the right environment to be happy anymore.

Your last reflection, whilst it may be the general sentiment, is not entirely correct. I for one actually voted to forgive everyone and just make sure that when we incorporated people, we reinforce our rules and set a tolerance level for bad feelings that would clash. You can ask Phur about it as we did mail him our votes. That is, if he did not just immediately delete them.

Squid addressed the rest of what I was going to say. The issue described is basically the bandwagon effect that seems to be a part of Resurgence.

Squid you bring me to the whole point of this thread. Im trying to show people that, if you can forget plan z, then why not forget the bank incident. Both happened and neither can be undone. The fact that plan z did not have a large impact is irrelevant, it still occurred.

The bank is not a polarizing issue, it is seen by some as one however. When people bring it up they do not think about what it really shows. Firstly, it is the action of a few. Only a small percentage of resurg even knew about it when they joined. How can someone be characterized by an action they had nothing to do with. Secondly it was not without a cause. We all know how and why bada broke up. In my opinion, the bank was not taken because the clan disagreed with the chief, but due to the way the clan showed this. The arena bs was a shambles, certain members, a couple are now bada leaders, were so rude and disrespectful I understand the events that followed.

The whole incident is overstated. I think people would have let it go if those items were left to rot, but they were given away to the very people they were originally kept from. Everyone knows that there came a point where bada stopped camping to gear up our own but to prevent others from obtaining drops. Now people cannot leave this incident behind and focus on the future. It seems that everyone talks about it but you shouldnt comment on it unless you actually helped build that bank.

After writing this it seems to me that the bank is brought up a lot as it is virtually the only half decent argument against resurg. If you dislike resurg, for whatever reason, you turn to it.

Maybe if we create a new clan and the entire resurg moves there, along with drops, it will all disappear. After all, people seem to only care about the clan name, they ignore the fact that it is the people that shape the clan, not the clan that shapes the people.

Maybe its cuz old time players would shame and blacklist scammers take bandit for example he has been known for scamming still to this day blacklisted so bc the scammer in your clan is a high lvl it makes it ok???? That's not how the old heads think it puts distrust on that reputation which actually used to mean something ..... Maybe were just old can't get with the new times .


About your part about just changing the name squid hit it on the head it would have to be a change in leadership but just my opioin just keepin it oldschool lol

Doc I avoided naming anyone previously, but since u did i will follow suit. Both Bella and asc were not in bada when split happened. For ur memory I will recount details, bella kickd a member for not turning up to boss and asc gave drop to a person out of clan (bella). They both broke clan rules and left no choice but to be kicked. If they were not kicked any and everyone could break rules and expect no consequence. They were kicked, therefore lose all claim to drops in my mind. Winded, I think, is one of the members who temporarily left in "nerd rage" This leaves the main campers to doc wretch vs katz phur. However if u look at others who camped sporadically, u will c that more r now resurg.

Boycotts, alone, are not dishonourable. This one however, was. The way it was carried out was shameful. Those involved refused to say, at first, what they were doing. Since u 4got bout bella and asc being kicked im sure u have 4gotten what was said there. Things such as "just waiting for glad" etc.. Seriously if they had any guts they would have just said what they were doing instead of f***ing around. In general boycotts may be a useful tool, but this one was handled shamefully and dishonourably. Also I did not understand why people hated those that were to be invtd. They did not do anything to us that we did not do to them.

There was not a war previous to plan z. Clans have split in the past and there has not been a massive clan war. No war was started when bada split, or when bank was taken. It was started when bada declared it, in the form of plan z. I do not see why you would warn people to stay off. The clan war should have only included bada and resurg, warning only makes sense if bada planned to attack everyone and not just resurg.

That last reflection was not directed to you as much as other members of bada who really did not wish to forgive and forget. You wanted a vote I remember, but did not express refusal of any merger.

@ nuee, Im not saying its not a scam or that it was ok. Im saying it is incredibly overstated. It is not like a player scamming 2m worth of lux, more like 200k maybe. Only a small number of current bada even deserve those drops (gone over it in previous comments) and they had no personal use for them. One could equate it to a robin hood sort of action. Took from rich gave to poor, think about it, it is quite similar. Not exact same though ofc.

Doc I avoided naming anyone previously, but since u did i will follow suit. Both Bella and asc were not in bada when split happened. For ur memory I will recount details, bella kickd a member for not turning up to boss and asc gave drop to a person out of clan (bella). They both broke clan rules and left no choice but to be kicked. If they were not kicked any and everyone could break rules and expect no consequence. They were kicked, therefore lose all claim to drops in my mind. Winded, I think, is one of the members who temporarily left in "nerd rage" This leaves the main campers to doc wretch vs katz phur. However if u look at others who camped sporadically, u will c that more r now resurg.

Boycotts, alone, are not dishonourable. This one however, was. The way it was carried out was shameful. Those involved refused to say, at first, what they were doing. Since u 4got bout bella and asc being kicked im sure u have 4gotten what was said there. Things such as "just waiting for glad" etc.. Seriously if they had any guts they would have just said what they were doing instead of f***ing around. In general boycotts may be a useful tool, but this one was handled shamefully and dishonourably. Also I did not understand why people hated those that were to be invtd. They did not do anything to us that we did not do to them.

There was not a war previous to plan z. Clans have split in the past and there has not been a massive clan war. No war was started when bada split, or when bank was taken. It was started when bada declared it, in the form of plan z. I do not see why you would warn people to stay off. The clan war should have only included bada and resurg, warning only makes sense if bada planned to attack everyone and not just resurg.

That last reflection was not directed to you as much as other members of bada who really did not wish to forgive and forget. You wanted a vote I remember, but did not express refusal of any merger.

@ nuee, Im not saying its not a scam or that it was ok. Im saying it is incredibly overstated. It is not like a player scamming 2m worth of lux, more like 200k maybe. Only a small number of current bada even deserve those drops (gone over it in previous comments) and they had no personal use for them. One could equate it to a robin hood sort of action. Took from rich gave to poor, think about it, it is quite similar. Not exact same though ofc.

Just to dispel all this. Plan Z was a kamikaze move, destroy the server, and bada in the process. It lasted about 3-4 days, we realized it wasn't right and have since attempted to do what is right. Res on the other hand did something wrong and never looked back, didn't even try to justify their actions. More of a 'yeah we stole your car, what are you gonna do about it?'.

Bella and asc were as much in the clan when they were out. Phur didn't want them back bc bella and asc had loosened smelly, kat, phur's grip on me and many others. Bella kicked smelly for not taking 5 mins out of his day to help on a boss that had spawned. Before the dl set, smelly would have been all over it, we counted on the people in dl to help the most. As soon as smelly got what he wanted he flipped the bird to any notion of bossing or camping 'because he felt like a slave'. Same goes for everybody else who had dl, half of the lock battles I played phur (just to dispel another myth, I never spoke more than 2 words while on phur). Never once did bella or asc break any rules to warrant kicking.

The boycott was to be spearheaded by me, and I got caught up on the phone that evening. When I logged some had gathered in the arena, and I promptly pulled together my group of people who were being ignored. If you were a gen roh you would realize that there was only 1 option given at the time, invite all uskoci asap. The boycott resulted in a vote in which all clan members, including phur agreed to. When phur didn't get his way he's the one who, as everybody seems to be saying, "nerd raged". If I didn't get my way that was fine by me, but I wanted the clan deciding the future and not 3 people in a clan of 400.

I submit to you that although plan z was to destroy bada and bada's image, we have worked hard to repair our reputation that was destroyed firstly by phur, rebuilt by goodies, and then destroyed again by phur. When goodies was chief we didn't have huge arguements, or too much drama. The problem is phur has never liked asc or bella, so no matter what they did they were on his unfathomable list for life.

Edit: so in response to nuee you're saying it's ok to scam small amounts as long as the other person doesn't 'need' items? Well damn, I'll send people who need a second chance under those rules then to phur. I'm sure bandit realized that people didn't 'need' their items. I'm sure sylvan realized people didn't 'need' their items. I'm sure magnetic realized people didn't 'need' their items.

Doc I avoided naming anyone previously, but since u did i will follow suit. Both Bella and asc were not in bada when split happened. For ur memory I will recount details, bella kickd a member for not turning up to boss and asc gave drop to a person out of clan (bella). They both broke clan rules and left no choice but to be kicked. If they were not kicked any and everyone could break rules and expect no consequence. They were kicked, therefore lose all claim to drops in my mind. Winded, I think, is one of the members who temporarily left in "nerd rage" This leaves the main campers to doc wretch vs katz phur. However if u look at others who camped sporadically, u will c that more r now resurg.

That situation was entirely based on opinion. Bella left to avoid drama and trust me when I say that the drama you saw was only the tip of the iceberg between bella and smells. In my opinion, it is not wrong to separate yourself from someone to maintain some semblance of peace. We all knew that even through the "nerd rage," everyone that left was still a part of bada and that includes Phur, Katz, Smells, Bella, Asc, Wind, etc etc. They all rage left... Not kicked but left.

On a continuous basis from months of work starting from the begining of update 4, more people that put in effort are in Bada. I also consider stealing a clan bank as breaking rules so when you narrow it down it is Wre and I vs. Katz. I am a tad curious though, I thought your idea of the clan and people relationship was that the blue letters above the head do not matter and it would be the effort that individual people put in?

Boycotts, alone, are not dishonourable. This one however, was. The way it was carried out was shameful. Those involved refused to say, at first, what they were doing. Since u 4got bout bella and asc being kicked im sure u have 4gotten what was said there. Things such as "just waiting for glad" etc.. Seriously if they had any guts they would have just said what they were doing instead of f***ing around. In general boycotts may be a useful tool, but this one was handled shamefully and dishonourably. Also I did not understand why people hated those that were to be invtd. They did not do anything to us that we did not do to them.

There was chaos in pms and group chats. People tried to restrain the problems to the gens which I actually did not agree to. However, the situation was delicate and the goal was to have a clan meeting for everyone to address this. The ill feelings is more from what was said rather than actions. There are certain ex-members of Usk that said some... stuff... to specific people.

There was not a war previous to plan z. Clans have split in the past and there has not been a massive clan war. No war was started when bada split, or when bank was taken. It was started when bada declared it, in the form of plan z. I do not see why you would warn people to stay off. The clan war should have only included bada and resurg, warning only makes sense if bada planned to attack everyone and not just resurg.

I suppose our definition of war is also different. I call hostile chats, feelings, aggressive locks, etc to be war. That happened exactly after the creation of resurgence. Plan z was the declaration of MAD: "we will go down, but we will take you down as well." The whole reason of staying away from Arawn is that favouring one end game clan would make you an enemy of the other.

Just in case anyone was wondering, here is the exact conversation that led to "plan z"