Celtic Heroes

Plus3 you are saying a lot of words without actually saying anything.

Above I gave an example of how someone could come to the perfectly logical conclusion that a god created the universe, you seem to be talking as if the belief in a god is pitiable, but you have not actually said much of anything with your posts, so it is hard to determine. If you really want to help people, or for that matter, are going to bother making posts in the first place, you need to be more clear with what your point actually is.

If you do not believe in a god, that is your choice. If you don't want to believe what the Christians on this thread believe, that is your choice. If you are going to say that believing in a god is illogical, you need to counter the logic I used in my previous post.

If you are going to say anything at all, say something, so far you have basically said nothing.

I can see how it may look like I haven't said much. But from my perspective have laid out how thinking and reality combine. We all are forced to use simplifications. Words and anectdotal stories are the easiest mechanisms for people to convey information. We all have a partial view of reality simplified so as to be meaningful and able to process it. The main thing here is to base your conclusions about reality based on forming hypothesis to explain the data at hand. Trying to collect new information to see if those hypothesis hold. Clinging helplessly to wherever facts lead you. This is the scientific method and the basis for all of us living almost as gods compared to just 2000 years ago. It forms a close approximation of objective reality which is important if you want to control the outcome of reality instead of not knowing and blindly choosing.

What is sad is how people fail to use objective reasoning and apply the scientific method to beliefs. There is nothing special about supernatural claims where belief cannot be held to the same scientific standards as any other practice.

Your comment that 'all beliefs are on the same ground' is the exact type of reality denial that is a huge problem for all humanity. Obviously they are not as I am not using chakra energy to return this post but rather principles of electromagnetism and applied physics.

Catholics invented the scientific method. Look it up.

What exactly is your point, Plus3?

I think that you have a lot of learning still to do, most importantly in social etiquette. What purpose does it serve to say that Christians make up 30% or so of the global population?

It means Christians are wrong? How? Majority rules?

What purpose does it serve to use that as an intended insult to tgwaste? It sounds like you are using his being Christian as a way to attack him, and I can't really understand why. I'll tell you this, after reading his posts and getting a glimpse of his personality and tact, I would be very happy if he were my neighbour, regardless of our theological differences.

And remember, God aside for a moment, religious groups and religious people do some of the best work on the planet helping the sick, the poor and otherwise less fortunate. My guestimation is that Christians provide the bulk of that assistance. Heck, for that reason alone I wish there were more Christians, or that more people lived a Christian lifestyle.


You need to be careful when using statistics and numbers. Don't get me wrong, I love them. But they need to serve a purpose; they are great for illustrating trends, as well as for dispelling some myths, but simple percentages don't tell us who is right or wrong. They never have, and they never will.

At one point in time, only a minority of people believed in a heliocentric solar system; did that mean they were wrong? I don't think so.

But let's assume your "majority rules" approach is correct for a moment. In that case, I would retort that pure atheists make up an estimated 2% of the global population. ie. 98% "of the world does not give any value to your" atheistic beliefs. Does it prove anything? No. Be careful of what cans you open; you are more likely than not to end up squirming.

You sound like you think that you are an atheist, though I think you are actually a teen who recently read the Communist Manifesto and is questioning everything. That's normal. I wish you luck on your journey.

In time, you will work it out for yourself, and you will calm down... as of right now, though, I gotta say that you simply sound like a pompous arse who thinks himself the atheistic messiah.

Good luck with that.

Obviously I have struck a nerve as you seem to be quite upset. I don't mean any of this personally or intend to 'attack' anyone for the purpose of putting them down.

The 31.5% comment is a truthful statement about Christians place in the world. Since we obviously all live in the same reality even if you forget that Christians hardly agree on any details and that agreement drastically changes over time it is a 'proof' that the majority of religious 'belief' can't be true. It can be easy to think the rest of the world shares your religious views but the truth is they are an accident of the location of your birth since statistically it's highly probable they are your parents as well.

Scientifically, if you can demonstrate a method for obtaining data that is reproducible and that shows a hole or other problem in current theories that was not noticed yet - you become an overnight celebrity in science. If you can take that and make a correction to have a more robust theory that fits the data you become immortalized in the halls of science like Einstein. This is in contradiction to religious 'belief' where it is assumed true with no evidence AND when you show a hole in the theory with repeatable data from an experiment you are likely to spark anger (with the offended party at a loss as to even explain why) or even get yourself murdered for Hersey.

I'm not trying to question what is or is not done in the name of religions. I'm sure plenty of good and bad has been done.

What I'm saying over and over is if you do not think within a reasonable correlation to objective reality it will come back and bite you in the ass becuse reality is completely unforgiving and uncaring. For the sake of your own self I hope you can see clearly enough not to come out on the wrong side of the equation. Please use logic and objective reasoning over dogma it will improve the quality of your life substantially in much the same way science has for humanity. It is very much in your own interests to know what is real - this is something that you do to improve your life and those lives around you.

What I'm saying over and over is if you do not think within a reasonable correlation to objective reality it will come back and bite you in the ass becuse reality is completely unforgiving and uncaring. For the sake of your own self I hope you can see clearly enough not to come out on the wrong side of the equation.

ok here's pure logic..

if I'm wrong and you're right = we both win
if I'm right and you're wrong = i win & you lose

What I'm saying over and over is if you do not think within a reasonable correlation to objective reality it will come back and bite you in the ass becuse reality is completely unforgiving and uncaring. For the sake of your own self I hope you can see clearly enough not to come out on the wrong side of the equation.

ok here's pure logic..

if I'm wrong and you're right = we both win
if I'm right and you're wrong = i win & you lose

This is much more important to yourself than me simply pointing out the logical fallacy that is Pascal's wager. A google search on that saves us both time.

I'm just asking that you apply logic and the scientific method to your critical thinking about belief. It is a genuine attempt to help you make your life better.

What I'm saying over and over is if you do not think within a reasonable correlation to objective reality it will come back and bite you in the ass becuse reality is completely unforgiving and uncaring. For the sake of your own self I hope you can see clearly enough not to come out on the wrong side of the equation.

ok here's pure logic..

if I'm wrong and you're right = we both win
if I'm right and you're wrong = i win & you lose

This is much more important to yourself than me simply pointing out the logical fallacy that is Pascal's wager. A google search on that saves us both time.

I'm just asking that you apply logic and the scientific method to your critical thinking about belief. It is a genuine attempt to help you make your life better.

My friend, you are not in the least bit helping make my life better. You are also not listening to anything anyone is telling you. You sound like a very young boy with a lot of learning yet to do.

I did listen to every word actually. I never seriously hoped to help anyone through a mmo forum post but it was worth a shot and thinking things over helps to cement them in my mind. Hopefully at least one person reads this and chooses thoughtful rationality. I can only hope you chose rationality before any serious negative consequences happen.

What exactly is your point, Plus3?

I think that you have a lot of learning still to do, most importantly in social etiquette. What purpose does it serve to say that Christians make up 30% or so of the global population?

It means Christians are wrong? How? Majority rules?

What purpose does it serve to use that as an intended insult to tgwaste? It sounds like you are using his being Christian as a way to attack him, and I can't really understand why. I'll tell you this, after reading his posts and getting a glimpse of his personality and tact, I would be very happy if he were my neighbour, regardless of our theological differences.

And remember, God aside for a moment, religious groups and religious people do some of the best work on the planet helping the sick, the poor and otherwise less fortunate. My guestimation is that Christians provide the bulk of that assistance. Heck, for that reason alone I wish there were more Christians, or that more people lived a Christian lifestyle.


You need to be careful when using statistics and numbers. Don't get me wrong, I love them. But they need to serve a purpose; they are great for illustrating trends, as well as for dispelling some myths, but simple percentages don't tell us who is right or wrong. They never have, and they never will.

At one point in time, only a minority of people believed in a heliocentric solar system; did that mean they were wrong? I don't think so.

But let's assume your "majority rules" approach is correct for a moment. In that case, I would retort that pure atheists make up an estimated 2% of the global population. ie. 98% "of the world does not give any value to your" atheistic beliefs. Does it prove anything? No. Be careful of what cans you open; you are more likely than not to end up squirming.

You sound like you think that you are an atheist, though I think you are actually a teen who recently read the Communist Manifesto and is questioning everything. That's normal. I wish you luck on your journey.

In time, you will work it out for yourself, and you will calm down... as of right now, though, I gotta say that you simply sound like a pompous arse who thinks himself the atheistic messiah.

Good luck with that.

Christians also amount for the majority of rapists, pedophiles, murderers and sociopaths in the world, fat lot of good they are doing,
Christian: lets help this homeless man by killing him.
Nice logic moron.

What exactly is your point, Plus3?

I think that you have a lot of learning still to do, most importantly in social etiquette. What purpose does it serve to say that Christians make up 30% or so of the global population?

It means Christians are wrong? How? Majority rules?

What purpose does it serve to use that as an intended insult to tgwaste? It sounds like you are using his being Christian as a way to attack him, and I can't really understand why. I'll tell you this, after reading his posts and getting a glimpse of his personality and tact, I would be very happy if he were my neighbour, regardless of our theological differences.

And remember, God aside for a moment, religious groups and religious people do some of the best work on the planet helping the sick, the poor and otherwise less fortunate. My guestimation is that Christians provide the bulk of that assistance. Heck, for that reason alone I wish there were more Christians, or that more people lived a Christian lifestyle.


You need to be careful when using statistics and numbers. Don't get me wrong, I love them. But they need to serve a purpose; they are great for illustrating trends, as well as for dispelling some myths, but simple percentages don't tell us who is right or wrong. They never have, and they never will.

At one point in time, only a minority of people believed in a heliocentric solar system; did that mean they were wrong? I don't think so.

But let's assume your "majority rules" approach is correct for a moment. In that case, I would retort that pure atheists make up an estimated 2% of the global population. ie. 98% "of the world does not give any value to your" atheistic beliefs. Does it prove anything? No. Be careful of what cans you open; you are more likely than not to end up squirming.

You sound like you think that you are an atheist, though I think you are actually a teen who recently read the Communist Manifesto and is questioning everything. That's normal. I wish you luck on your journey.

In time, you will work it out for yourself, and you will calm down... as of right now, though, I gotta say that you simply sound like a pompous arse who thinks himself the atheistic messiah.

Good luck with that.

Christians also amount for the majority of rapists, pedophiles, murderers and sociopaths in the world, fat lot of good they are doing,
Christian: lets help this homeless man by killing him.
Nice logic moron.

100%. Wrong. Wrong wrong.