Celtic Heroes

Solumbum wrote:God is sovereign; He has everything under control.

Then why were the mass killing events in history allowed to occur? Also, if this is so, how would this bring happiness? With this kind of thinking, it almost seems like we are just the play things of a mad scientist. Everything under the complete control of one being with unclear motives; your fate is completely set in stone.

Another thing to consider is that if god controls everything, how does the devil tempt us? Why does the devil exist in the first place?

Solumbum wrote:Ok one of u said that they believed in god and in evolution. If you believe in the god of the bible you cannot believe in evolution. Just had to get that out.

Why? What is wrong with the belief that a god could simply be the breath of life for the universe and set life in motion? Perhaps guiding us towards enlightenment or a new higher plane of existence?

There is this too.. evolution happens over many millenia, and the earth was created in 7 days according to the bible. What i have to ask you is: how long is a day to god? maybe evolution is god's hand at work, because god does not measure time like mortals do.

Solumbum wrote:God is sovereign; He has everything under control.

Then why were the mass killing events in history allowed to occur? Also, if this is so, how would this bring happiness? With this kind of thinking, it almost seems like we are just the play things of a mad scientist. Everything under the complete control of one being with unclear motives; your fate is completely set in stone.

Another thing to consider is that if god controls everything, how does the devil tempt us? Why does the devil exist in the first place?

Solumbum wrote:Ok one of u said that they believed in god and in evolution. If you believe in the god of the bible you cannot believe in evolution. Just had to get that out.

Why? What is wrong with the belief that a god could simply be the breath of life for the universe and set life in motion? Perhaps guiding us towards enlightenment or a new higher plane of existence?

There is this too.. evolution happens over many millenia, and the earth was created in 7 days according to the bible. What i have to ask you is: how long is a day to god? maybe evolution is god's hand at work, because god does not measure time like mortals do.

The above is just the tip of the iceberg. Applying rational thought to any religion quickly turns up more problems than a daycare visit to a prison fulla pedophiles. If you are religious at all - even a little - i strongly suggest not tugin at any of those threads.

Then what is the need for humans to worship him (it, whatever.)? Why must the complexity of the universe be represented in such a human way? That, in my opinion, does not seem correct.

The universe seems to be just one large process independent of any intelligent management. When I see smaller cycles and processes, I think: why not expand this idea to life? Life is a process. Our environment is a process. We can see that events can occur without any entity interfering.

People have expressed that humanity has free will. Well, what if the universe has complete free will? What proof exists that would show that we (the human race) are special, not unique but special, and that religion is only a way to explain phenomena in a human way?

I am probably writing this out in a much too confusing manner. The above is more my opinion, not something that really be proven correct or incorrect...

What do you mean by the "need" for humans to worship him (or it)? Its is never said in the Bible that god needs us to worship him, there are just many examples of people awed by "his works" and are moved to worship him. I'm not certain if you were asking anything else here so I apologize if I answered the wrong question.

If I was a god creating a universe I would make it capable of running on its own. It only makes sense that an intelligent designer would create a universe with logical processes and cycles if he was going to make one.

We don't really have any indication that the universe is sentient or has a will of its own, or really that anything other than humans have sentience, but you can certainly consider it.
Again I apologize if I am replying to the wrong question and you meant something else.

Solumbum wrote:God is sovereign; He has everything under control.

Then why were the mass killing events in history allowed to occur? Also, if this is so, how would this bring happiness? With this kind of thinking, it almost seems like we are just the play things of a mad scientist. Everything under the complete control of one being with unclear motives; your fate is completely set in stone.

Another thing to consider is that if god controls everything, how does the devil tempt us? Why does the devil exist in the first place?

Solumbum wrote:Ok one of u said that they believed in god and in evolution. If you believe in the god of the bible you cannot believe in evolution. Just had to get that out.

Why? What is wrong with the belief that a god could simply be the breath of life for the universe and set life in motion? Perhaps guiding us towards enlightenment or a new higher plane of existence?

There is this too.. evolution happens over many millenia, and the earth was created in 7 days according to the bible. What i have to ask you is: how long is a day to god? maybe evolution is god's hand at work, because god does not measure time like mortals do.

The above is just the tip of the iceberg. Applying rational thought to any religion quickly turns up more problems than a daycare visit to a prison fulla pedophiles. If you are religious at all - even a little - i strongly suggest not tugin at any of those threads.

To Bitey's first statement: According to the Bible God created the Devil with free will and the Devil rebelled against God because he wanted to be god himself. God allows the Devil to temp us because God wants to test us to show whether or not we love him.

To Bitey's second statement: There are many Christians who believe God used evolution as a tool in his creation and that the earth is in fact, very old.

To Plus3: Both his statements had rational answers. Religion can be perfectly rational to those who have an open mind to understand a different point of view.

The God of the Bible's goal is NOT to make everyone happy, it isn't even to make his followers have happy lives. To him, our short life is just a microscopic blip in eternity, this world is just a test whether or not we love him and choose to spend eternity in his kingdom or choose to live eternity away from him because we reject him. Of course he allows bad things to happen, but every "bad thing" here is only in the finite. That is why trying to analyze God's actions as just or unjust is so ridiculous, we only see in the finite through our own two tiny eyes what looks like it benefits us in this short life. God is not trying to please us in this short life, he is letting us show where we want to spend eternity.

Could you check the wrappers of any empty brain soap containers laying around? I really need some to implement my own money making schemes and that brand must really take those pesky spots of truth right out.

I am guessing by the fact that you tried to be clever with a troll comment that you either did not understand me because you don't know much about religion and are closed to any view but your own, your mind could not comprehend what I was saying, or you understand my argument but you can't think of a legitimate counter so you resorted to trying to be a smart mouth.

The God of the Bible's goal is NOT to make everyone happy, it isn't even to make his followers have happy lives. To him, our short life is just a microscopic blip in eternity, this world is just a test whether or not we love him and choose to spend eternity in his kingdom or choose to live eternity away from him because we reject him. Of course he allows bad things to happen, but every "bad thing" here is only in the finite. That is why trying to analyze God's actions as just or unjust is so ridiculous, we only see in the finite through our own two tiny eyes what looks like it benefits us in this short life. God is not trying to please us in this short life, he is letting us show where we want to spend eternity.

Could you check the wrappers of any empty brain soap containers laying around? I really need some to implement my own money making schemes and that brand must really take those pesky spots of truth right out.

I am guessing by the fact that you tried to be clever with a troll comment that you either did not understand me because you don't know much about religion and are closed to any view but your own, your mind could not comprehend what I was saying, or you understand my argument but you can't think of a legitimate counter so you resorted to trying to be a smart mouth.

I'm closed to non factual views, views that can't be supported by logical argument, and views that are obviously founded on nothing but belief and yet are portrayed as factual - this includes views from authority outside the first two points. Yes. Other than that I am extremely open to ideas. In fact I helplessly go where the facts reveal actual truth. Something everyone should do.

Athiests tend to be smarter (intellectual quotient wise) and far more informed of religious writings and facts than religious people. This is only a statistical fact though, it is not factual about any particular individual.

And yes after 50 pages it's obvious facts and logical argument get us no where at all.

Everyone judges events even if they consciously try not to. If you want we can have a discussion about the statement above but I doubt you will like it.

Solumbum wrote:God is sovereign; He has everything under control.

Then why were the mass killing events in history allowed to occur? Also, if this is so, how would this bring happiness? With this kind of thinking, it almost seems like we are just the play things of a mad scientist. Everything under the complete control of one being with unclear motives; your fate is completely set in stone.

Another thing to consider is that if god controls everything, how does the devil tempt us? Why does the devil exist in the first place?

Solumbum wrote:Ok one of u said that they believed in god and in evolution. If you believe in the god of the bible you cannot believe in evolution. Just had to get that out.

Why? What is wrong with the belief that a god could simply be the breath of life for the universe and set life in motion? Perhaps guiding us towards enlightenment or a new higher plane of existence?

There is this too.. evolution happens over many millenia, and the earth was created in 7 days according to the bible. What i have to ask you is: how long is a day to god? maybe evolution is god's hand at work, because god does not measure time like mortals do.

Ok ill answer ur second question. Just to make it clear i am talking about the God of the Bible. The reason i said that u cannot combine evolution and creation, is that the wording in the Bible makes it clear that the days they were talking about were literal days. Also the Hebrew word day that was used there was translated as a literal day practically every time in the Bible(i think this is what I heard maybe ill look it up later). The evolutionary ages cannot fit before creation, after creation, or during creation.

Another thing to consider, the only reason that evolution is still being taught is because by the time they disproved it, it was already rooted in

Solumbum wrote:God is sovereign; He has everything under control.

Then why were the mass killing events in history allowed to occur? Also, if this is so, how would this bring happiness? With this kind of thinking, it almost seems like we are just the play things of a mad scientist. Everything under the complete control of one being with unclear motives; your fate is completely set in stone.

Another thing to consider is that if god controls everything, how does the devil tempt us? Why does the devil exist in the first place?

Solumbum wrote:Ok one of u said that they believed in god and in evolution. If you believe in the god of the bible you cannot believe in evolution. Just had to get that out.

Why? What is wrong with the belief that a god could simply be the breath of life for the universe and set life in motion? Perhaps guiding us towards enlightenment or a new higher plane of existence?

There is this too.. evolution happens over many millenia, and the earth was created in 7 days according to the bible. What i have to ask you is: how long is a day to god? maybe evolution is god's hand at work, because god does not measure time like mortals do.

Ok ill answer ur second question. Just to make it clear i am talking about the God of the Bible. The reason i said that u cannot combine evolution and creation, is that the wording in the Bible makes it clear that the days they were talking about were literal days. Also the Hebrew word day that was used there was translated as a literal day practically every time in the Bible(i think this is what I heard maybe ill look it up later). The evolutionary ages cannot fit before creation, after creation, or during creation.

Another thing to consider, the only reason that evolution is still being taught is because by the time they disproved it, it was already rooted in

Yes it is true there are hundreds of major, if not thousands, of factual errors in the bible. Basically any attempt to say its correct without cherry picking it makes the poster look horribly uninformed, brainwashed, or clinically insane. Perhaps a combo of those as well.

Maybe people still believe the bible because by the time they can rationalize its bogus for themselves the brainwashing has already set in for 15 years. Not to mention the peer pressure and threats that family, friends, etc put on those who dare to question things. Just sayin.

Then what is the need for humans to worship him (it, whatever.)? Why must the complexity of the universe be represented in such a human way? That, in my opinion, does not seem correct.

The universe seems to be just one large process independent of any intelligent management. When I see smaller cycles and processes, I think: why not expand this idea to life? Life is a process. Our environment is a process. We can see that events can occur without any entity interfering.

People have expressed that humanity has free will. Well, what if the universe has complete free will? What proof exists that would show that we (the human race) are special, not unique but special, and that religion is only a way to explain phenomena in a human way?

I am probably writing this out in a much too confusing manner. The above is more my opinion, not something that really be proven correct or incorrect...

What do you mean by the "need" for humans to worship him (or it)? Its is never said in the Bible that god needs us to worship him, there are just many examples of people awed by "his works" and are moved to worship him. I'm not certain if you were asking anything else here so I apologize if I answered the wrong question.

If I was a god creating a universe I would make it capable of running on its own. It only makes sense that an intelligent designer would create a universe with logical processes and cycles if he was going to make one.

We don't really have any indication that the universe is sentient or has a will of its own, or really that anything other than humans have sentience, but you can certainly consider it.
Again I apologize if I am replying to the wrong question and you meant something else.

Ahh, there is a lot here that does make sense. It does not specifically say that we must worship but there is a general impression that we should love and praise God. You mention above that the devil tempts us to test our love for god. Does that mean love is mandatory?

I am still puzzled as to why explanations and lessons in religion are so human and so instant. God snaps the universe into existance. Person A does action B which creates big phenomena AB, etc. I know my explanation for the question is still terrible. Sorry. :/

The idea that a god would create the universe to be self sustaining makes a lot of sense. I was kinda merging the perspectives of god into that question; it really applies more to people who believe god is still all controlling and is managing the universe right now.

I do certainly believe it is possible the universe is sentient or there is a sentient force maintaining the universe. It is just my opinion that we honestly live in an ordered chaos where we are no more important than a microorganism in the overall existence of everything.

Just one quick thing. Vraelen u said that u believed in ordered chaos. Ordered chaos? That sounds a little contradictory. How cn chaos be ordered? Chaos means, well, confusion and well a lot of other things. Chaos is not ordered. When an office is on fire usually everyone runs around screaming and panicking. This is chaos. As far as i knw i have never seen things being chaotic in an orderly way. Just sayin.

*give me an example outside evolution in which there was orderly chaos.