Celtic Heroes

Since we're discussing multiple things about Mordris, more than we've ever done with any other boss how about we discuss something from the 2 most popular bosses right now; Hrungnir and Aggragoth.

MAIN POINT

They drop these nasty little rings that add damage to auto attacks, sounds pretty awesome to all you warriors/rangers/rogues right? Wrong, it sounds awesome to every class but to 2/5 of those classes it's for the wrong reason. We have people come to a fight for a reason and that is to fight, and if you fought long and hard you deserve to be rewarded, or in the case with 40+ people you deserve a chance to be rewarded. The only real reason a mage/druid would want one of these rings is to either sell it or give it to a clanmate. This is pretty crazy, by doing one of those you are either:

A) Pumping drops to the richer players, disadvantaging the less fortunate.
B) Giving a drop away to someone who wasn't even at the fight, pretty unfair that someone can sleep during a fight and wake up with a drop in his mailbox.
C) Giving a player at the fight multiple chances at a single drop, and even more depending what alts they have/bring.

No matter what you do with a drop, if you don't plan to use it you're wasting other players time and money. This is why I propose that mages/druids should not be able to dice for a damage ring drop, they have no use for it other than to send it to another player either in a trade or a donation.


EXTRA POINTS

There are armour rings so before you say that those can be diced for all players so dps rings should too, those rings can be used by everyone just the same and everyone will benefit from 40 armour just the same(not a lot at all) whereas a dps ring can only effectively be used by someone who uses auto attack/skills based off auto attack damage.

Before you say a mage/druid could be dicing for their other characters, if they wanted to dice for that character they would have brought it right? This is similar to me bringing my rogue to snorri and then asking to dice for a green crown because I need it for Venus.

You say there is no class requirement on it so therefore it is no class? Same goes for tridents at aggy, they have no class requirement so why wouldn't that be diced just the same? Oh right, because a druid/mage would be useless if they were using that weapon.

People want to give items to clannies/friends so why can't I just dice for some red dl items to give to a friend of mine? I can use it the same way as a mage would use a dps ring, not at all.

My druid has 140 auto attack damage and is non stop casting skills, a damage ring would be completely useless on her unless casting is possible while attacking and if the ring added 1200+ damage but that's not the case.

Just because you can equip it doesn't mean you can use it, I can equip a nature magic ring or a staff ability ring(have one bound on Vulture) but that helps me similar to a dps ring helping a caster.

Let's keep this as a friendly discussion, share your points to support your response with no insults or bashing others or simply just +1/-1 a post to show feedback.

Hey vult . I'm going to go ahead and go into the original reasonings of a discussion we had at the beginning of us starting aggy as far as the damage rings go.

My first time talking to Shad about joining aggy fights I was but a newbie. Started aggy fights as a level 110 druid simply because i was one of the few active druid mains. Myself, Shad, and a few other high levels discussed the possible loot distribution of aggy. We had 4 drops. One weapon which consisted of a trident or a grimorie. Both non-class. We decided that, obviously; warriors, rangers, and rogues would dice for the trident and mages and druids would dice for the grimories. The bracelet was obviously class restricted and so were the skill rings. Then the dps rings were brought up. Everyone agreed that the melee classes would gain the most benefit from them, the only exclusion was the popularity of h2h fire mages. We decided to use dps rings as the so called "wild apple" giving everyone who participated in the fight a chance for a drop. That's why druids and mages roll on dps rings.

As far as the +/- I'm kinda torn. I do agree that melee classes deserve the dps rings but... Everyone who participated deserves some compensation. Given the fact that we have more end game bosses now though... I'm leaning closer to a +1 for ya.

Once again I'm not arguing why druids/mages should roll on dps rings. Just stating the original idea.

First of all, I do not agree that casters getting a dps ring and donating it to a third party is a problem. It is always a challenge to decide who should dice for non-restricted drops, but all attempts at rules for this will have flaws. Why should a h2h firemage not be able to dice for a godly fire damage ring, while a defence/armour-based tank is able to dice for it. many argue that warriors are not a true dps class, so why should they get dps gear?

I would go as to the oposite argument to you, Vul. If a caster gets a good dps damage ring, there is a good chance that this ring will go to someone who is an important contributor to the outcome of boss fights.

I am a new player and was not involved in the game nor the strategy for Aggy. But let me summurize what I believe to be at issue. Casters are eligable to roll for an item that would benefit a dps class better, even though the caster can equip it now. And it is felt that the casters should not be allowed to roll for a dps ring.
It was decided to allow casters who where at the battle to roll for this none class specific item.
So, ppl now want to discuss the possibilty of placing a limit as to the eligibility of the DPS rings to only the DPS class (Warrior, Rogue).
I hope I have a grasp of the issue.
I ask, How is this different than limiting a level 190 item to a level 190 toon? it is still placing a restriction on dicing for an item and limiting the amount of ppl rolling for that item improving odds.
Yes, a the winner (if not at level of item) can in the future use it, (if they level), or they can loan or sell …. thier choice, thier item.
A restiction on any items/class/level needs to be honestly looked at and thought through. Items are diced by class …why? Because it makes sense that a warrior present should get a warrior item.
Levels for a boss are set why? Because of damage done at certain levels.
Levels for items are not set why? Because everyone wants that drop (even if they cannot use it)
As a caster I find it impossible to level on lix in a support mode, I need to switch to a dps configuration (I am refering to solo, as we all must solo at higher levels …very little exp.). An alt book or more a day is unrealistic and costly, so that leaves items that can be worn to enhance DPS/armour. So I understand why it was decided that caster could roll for that DPS ring. Any advantage to make it less costly and timely to level is invaluable.
So is the issue that a caster can roll for something that they can use and can benefit them, or is the issue that DPS wants better odds on winning that DPS ring.
Please help me to understand the issue fully. I take no offense if your opinion is different than mine, I can agree to disagree and move on.

Thanks
Randall

Okay let me try and explain it a bit differently, my druid currently has 147 damage. Now if I put on 3 40 damage rings it bumps up to 267 damage and this is comparable to a level 50 rogue. Now let's take into consideration how many auto attacks you use and actually hit with. Odds are for most druids their tot/hand to hand ability isn't very high as melee combat generally isn't used so not only will you be hitting maybe 100 per hit, you'll also be missing most of those hits and sacrificing points in your main source of dps(skills)for this tiny auto attack.

I've had many people say they use auto attack in between skills for extra dps, well with most drui weapons at a 3000 attack speed you'll only hit one time before casting another skill most times. And as I said since most druids don't do melee combat their ability for their weapon is usually low therefore reducing accuracy/attack and damage. So you won't use the auto attack much, and you won't hit with it much, and if you do it won't do much anyways. So that's why I feel that dps rings should be restricted to melee dps classes only as it benefits them greatly where for a caster it has little to no effect.

Anyways my points for warriors Derken is that there's only room for about 1-2 tanks for the most part, so if you can't tank what else can you do? Dps, and where do warriors dps come from? Their auto attacks and the skills that rely on auto attack damage. You also mention hand to hand mages/druids, I see none of them as of update 4 past level 100...

Just to clarify this isn't about level requirements, I'm all for a level 175 getting a 180+ item at Hrungnir long as they can actually use it rather than just sell it off.

To the advantages of dicing, there's very little of an advantage with 40+ people there and generally only 4-5 druids and 1-2 mages it's barely making it better for melee dps.

I also would like to add that the point of these rings isn't to significantly increase your damage per hit but more of a damage over time effect. An extra 60-100 damage from a couple rings definitely isn't much but where a rogue/ranger hits hundreds of times a fight the damage bonus builds up to thousands quickly but where a druid so infrequently uses melee it may only add a couple hundred damage to the whole fight which as you all know isn't much now.

I am greatly against a ban on letting druids/mages get damage rings for these reasons:
1. Many druids have a build in which they AUTO enemies to death. I auto a ton with my staff and would love more dmg but I can see how it might be better to let a autoing druid first pick.
2. dmg rings do help mages skills increase in damage.
3. a rare(but useful) mage tank build DOESN'T use skills to kill they instead rely on autos to kill.
3. Giving away sooner should be a reason to ban them from getting one? i know many rangers/warriors/rogues that give away their drops because they have better gear.

I am greatly against a ban on letting druids/mages get damage rings for these reasons:
1. Many druids have a build in which they AUTO enemies to death. I auto a ton with my staff and would love more dmg but I can see how it might be better to let a autoing druid first pick.
2. dmg rings do help mages skills increase in damage.
3. a rare(but useful) mage tank build DOESN'T use skills to kill they instead rely on autos to kill.
3. Giving away sooner should be a reason to ban them from getting one? i know many rangers/warriors/rogues that give away their drops because they have better gear.

Druids don't auto enemies to death unless they're extremely poor and have no lux or of they happen to deal the final blow with auto attacks lol, so nobody 140+ Basically

Damage rings don't affect mage skills that are based on focus, so all of them.

A mage is the worst class to tank, what skill do they use anyways? E shield to keep them up and that's it? We know why it's rare, because it's useless.

You said 3 twice, and this isn't giving away outdated gear. This is people getting drops they can't even effectively use and selling them off to people who can use them. I don't care much about clanmates or friends giving away drops because I think of it more of a sub in, this warrior appeared to fill in for that warrior and have that warrior the drop. Rather than this mage came to sub in for that warrior... Got a warrior drop..? Yeah does that make sense?

Thank you for clarifiying your point, But I must say my Totem ability is almost at max, as I solo, I auto attack and use double strike in my rotation. So, from my point of view, a DPS ring would help greatly (do not have one BTW, but all good I have managed to reach 184 without one yet).
I do not DPS any Boss (although I did take on Snorri 4 solo …waxed me twice before I got him on the third go).
So, pros and cons to having a caster with a DPS ring. Each with valid reasoning.
But I would have to disagree based on the following:
1. They can use it right away
2. It benifits them in leveling
3. It benifits clan and server to have casters level to 180+

Boss fights. Most are no problem with the exception of Hungry guy and Mordris. These both require somebody to re-skill. So as I can see the benefit of DPS having a DPS ring for these bosses, many clans help their clannies (and friends helping friends) help by loanig items.

My viewpoint on this issue, is that aggy should stay the same. But id be fine if warrior ranger rouge diced for damage rings on Hrungnir. If mages and druids only diced for armor rings because mages and druids have the least armor of the classes.