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Re: A Discussion About Religion: The [Threequel]

#811
And this is my last point against atheism. You said it is much more probable for everything to come about from natural processes. Astrophysicist Hugh Ross has calculated that there are 122 constants that without which, there would be no life on Earth (i.e. the perfect axil tilt, water vapor levels, time of rotation). For all 122 of these constants to be true, the odds are 1 in 1 x 10^138. Thats an impossible number! and the odds of there being a religion that is correct is supposably less than this.
Yes, the probability that our Earth was formed in this exact way is incredibly low. That is why we do not see many planets that could support life, if any at all. However, when compared to any religion, which provides no evidence or quantifiable data, then the probability that the Earth and everything we know being created by natural processes is far greater.
The way anythng winds up being is ultra improbable because of so many factors every object has. But that's not why we have trouble finding other planets that support life. Finding a planet is much harder than seeing a grain of salt sitting a few feet from a candle in San Francisco if you are as far away as new York - and that's just for nearby planets. Yet we have already found a planet that is remarkably similar to earth with a few more "habitable" ones.

Out of 1850 planets or so we have found a handful are like earth. It's highly likely there are over 100 billion planets in our galaxy - even a full trillion is quite likely. In the observable universe there is likely a trillion trillion planets. There will be many with life even if life is extraordinarily improbable.

But the real reason the question is stupid is life EVOLVED. No matter what the enviornment life fills it and finds what works and what dosent. Therefore any life we find would have pretty much a 100% chance of having adapted to that enviornment as that is how life works. It's basically a variant of the anthropic principle.
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Re: A Discussion About Religion: The [Threequel]

#812
One of the strongest pieces of evidence for a worldwide flood is the existence of "polystrate fossils." Such fossils are found all over the world. They usually consist of fossil trees that were buried upright, and which often traverse multiple layers of strata such as sandstone, limestone, shale, and even coal beds. Beds of which are supposed to have formed millions of years apart. They range in size from small rootlets to trees over 80 feet long. Sometimes they are oblique in relation to the surrounding strata, but more often they are perpendicular to it. For example, at Joggins, Nova Scotia, polystrate tree (and root) fossils are found at various intervals throughout roughly 2,500 feet of strata. Many of these are from 10-20 feet long, and, at least one was 40 feet long.

We find fossils of sea creatures in rock layers that cover all the continents. For example, most of the rock layers in the walls of Grand Canyon (more than a mile above sea level) contain marine fossils. Fossilized shellfish are even found in the Himalayas. And since the Himalayas are the highest elevation above sea level on earth, and there was water that carried marine life to that point, that means that for water to reach that high, the rest of the earth was covered in water.

We find evidence of rapid erosion, or even of no erosion, between rock layers. Flat, knife-edge boundaries between rock layers indicate continuous deposition of one layer after another, with no time for erosion. For example, there is no evidence of any “missing” millions of years (of erosion) in the flat boundary between one rock layer and another, specifically in the Grand Canyon.

And the Bible tells us how big the ark was. It was 450 feet long, 75 feet wide, and 45 feet high. And since the earth was covered in water, Noah did not need to carry the whales on the ark. And also, animals have microevolved since the Flood. I am sure you will agree with this too as we see many different varieties of dogs, birds, cats, for example. Because of this, Noah did not need to bring every single different breed of animal. The Bible says Noah carried animals of every "kind". This word means general kind, not specific breed. Meaning Noah did not bring every single breed of dog. Just one pair of dogs. The same goes for snakes, cats, lizards, and insects etc.

Rocks do not normally bend; they break because they are hard and brittle. But in many places we find whole sequences of strata that were bent without fracturing, indicating that all the rock layers were rapidly deposited and folded while still wet and pliable before final hardening. For example, the Tapeats Sandstone in Grand Canyon is folded at a right angle (90°) without evidence of breaking. Yet this folding could only have occurred after the rest of the layers had been deposited, supposedly over “480 million years,” while the Tapeats Sandstone remained wet and pliable.

Your claim that the ark was not structurely sound. Where did that come from? There was no inspectors back then that went around inspecting boats. And the Bible doesnt say the ark went around the earth collecting the animals. It says that the animals came to the boat, a completely possible act because God told Noah about the Flood a long time before it actually happened, giving the animals plenty of time to traverse the earth.

The claim that human genetic diversity could not have arisen from only two original people has been around for awhile. This assertion comes from mathematical simulations done in the 1990s. These simulations assume evolution happened in order to prove evolution is true. The reasoning is entirely circular and therefore invalid. Evolutionary scientists reject the biblical history of humanity’s origin from just two people. Nevertheless, when a group of evolutionary geneticists in 2009 evaluated various models of human origins, they tacitly acknowledged the plausibility of human descent from the people dispersed from the Tower of Babel. What they called the “instantaneous divergence model” sounds pretty much like what happened at the Tower of Babel sometime after the global Flood. These evolutionists found that “the genetic ‘predictions’ of the instantaneous divergence model are consistent with observed human genetic variation!”

Here is your evidence. You can choose to accept it or not.

Re: A Discussion About Religion: The [Threequel]

#814
One of the strongest pieces of evidence for a worldwide flood is the existence of "polystrate fossils." Such fossils are found all over the world. They usually consist of fossil trees that were buried upright, and which often traverse multiple layers of strata such as sandstone, limestone, shale, and even coal beds. Beds of which are supposed to have formed millions of years apart. They range in size from small rootlets to trees over 80 feet long. Sometimes they are oblique in relation to the surrounding strata, but more often they are perpendicular to it. For example, at Joggins, Nova Scotia, polystrate tree (and root) fossils are found at various intervals throughout roughly 2,500 feet of strata. Many of these are from 10-20 feet long, and, at least one was 40 feet long.
It's not surprising at all that trees die and leave a vertical stump. Have you been outside a city? When sediment fills around them they leave exactly that remmenant. 19th century geology explained them well there is no inconsistency with geology. But I suppose it's a world wide conspiracy among hundreds of thousands of geologists (many who happen to have at least a weak affiliation to a religion) for like 20 bucks in funding money. All these trees explain is how modern geology is correct.


We find fossils of sea creatures in rock layers that cover all the continents. For example, most of the rock layers in the walls of Grand Canyon (more than a mile above sea level) contain marine fossils. Fossilized shellfish are even found in the Himalayas. And since the Himalayas are the highest elevation above sea level on earth, and there was water that carried marine life to that point, that means that for water to reach that high, the rest of the earth was covered in water.

Yes even miles higher there are fossils of marine creatures all of which are millions of years older than your myth. In case you missed grade school science the earths crust floats atop molten rock and it is the movement of these plates that push ancient sea beds over millions of years into higher locations along subduction fault areas. So thanks for providing evidence that directly disproves your flood

We find evidence of rapid erosion, or even of no erosion, between rock layers. Flat, knife-edge boundaries between rock layers indicate continuous deposition of one layer after another, with no time for erosion. For example, there is no evidence of any “missing” millions of years (of erosion) in the flat boundary between one rock layer and another, specifically in the Grand Canyon.
not at all. It depends on the particulars of the rock. It's not like rock layers are always deposited on a regular basis. Plenty of rock layers go long periods of time with little erosion then are paved over with new material. Such a jumbled mess of nonsense here I can't even tell what you are trying to say.

And the Bible tells us how big the ark was. It was 450 feet long, 75 feet wide, and 45 feet high. And since the earth was covered in water, Noah did not need to carry the whales on the ark. And also, animals have microevolved since the Flood. I am sure you will agree with this too as we see many different varieties of dogs, birds, cats, for example. Because of this, Noah did not need to bring every single different breed of animal. The Bible says Noah carried animals of every "kind". This word means general kind, not specific breed. Meaning Noah did not bring every single breed of dog. Just one pair of dogs. The same goes for snakes, cats, lizards, and insects etc.
Lol you said micro evolved yet the DNA evidence including mitrocondrial DNA proves these animals never had a breeding population of under thousands of animals. The genetic implication of restricting a population to 2 or 8 is unmistakable and would leave massive evidence for which we see the opposite. Microevolution is evolution over shorter timeframes unless you are obtuse and intellectually dishonest and just choose to disbelieve in reality. How the FK could animals walk across oceans to get to the arc? Even if your laughable microevolution claim is part of the argument there is further genetic evidence that this did not exist. It is laughable. Furthermore even with two of some kinds there is no way there is enough room. Also whales can't survive in fresh or brackish water so Noah would need water tanks for all the marine animals. You never mention the mass extinctions of all marine life due to salinity issues nor the land plants due to a year of submergence. But I guess god made the seeds walk across oceans too as he walked on water all the time lmafo!

Rocks do not normally bend; they break because they are hard and brittle. But in many places we find whole sequences of strata that were bent without fracturing, indicating that all the rock layers were rapidly deposited and folded while still wet and pliable before final hardening. For example, the Tapeats Sandstone in Grand Canyon is folded at a right angle (90°) without evidence of breaking. Yet this folding could only have occurred after the rest of the layers had been deposited, supposedly over “480 million years,” while the Tapeats Sandstone remained wet and pliable.
There is evidence the layers were deposited in a strong flow thus bypassing the nonsense you mention. "wet and pliable" is not how sedimentary layers form like paper mâché lmafo. If you want an accredited description here is a source complete with documented evidence http://geology.swau.edu/faculty/tapeats.html Oh yea I forgot about the world wide conspiricy by all scientists in all fields to cover up gods work. Come up with some real evidence instead of ministers who play preted geologist without a 6th grade understanding of what they are playing at.
Your claim that the ark was not structurely sound. Where did that come from? There was no inspectors back then that went around inspecting boats. And the Bible doesnt say the ark went around the earth collecting the animals. It says that the animals came to the boat, a completely possible act because God told Noah about the Flood a long time before it actually happened, giving the animals plenty of time to traverse the earth.
the bible describes the ark it obviously was a myth and never made. Modern mechanical engineering methods can easily simulate structures mathematically so you can be pretty damn sure of how they behave without building them. Plus the fact that the torsional problem with wood hulls plagued every navy in the world. But hey if militaries around the world can't build a viable one and the same tech that successfully models the space station, super carriers, and skyscrapers says its bull then it must be made of magic god trees and gods chewing gum right? Laughable. It is simplicity itself to disprove.

The claim that human genetic diversity could not have arisen from only two original people has been around for awhile. This assertion comes from mathematical simulations done in the 1990s. These simulations assume evolution happened in order to prove evolution is true. The reasoning is entirely circular and therefore invalid. Evolutionary scientists reject the biblical history of humanity’s origin from just two people. Nevertheless, when a group of evolutionary geneticists in 2009 evaluated various models of human origins, they tacitly acknowledged the plausibility of human descent from the people dispersed from the Tower of Babel. What they called the “instantaneous divergence model” sounds pretty much like what happened at the Tower of Babel sometime after the global Flood. These evolutionists found that “the genetic ‘predictions’ of the instantaneous divergence model are consistent with observed human genetic variation!”

Here is your evidence. You can choose to accept it or not.
There is no accredited material of the tower of babel it is really laughable. There are several bottlenecks that occurred all of which were a few thousand to a few tens of thousands of humans and one was a precursor to humans 2.5m years ago. Tell me the study because I can show actual peer reviewed studies from as late as this year all of which agree generally on what happened. Obviously you are trying to cite some BS crafted by apologists. No geneticist or evolutionary biologist believes humans were ever at 2. There is massive evidence to the contrary and none to support it.

What people "believe" about the evidence has no bearing on reality that is what you fail to understand. It speaks for itself with no opinion needed. Afterall nuclear bombs, the Internet, and airplanes are "not an opinion" and it makes no matter if you "accept it or not"

That was so easy but then again I'd expect your understanding of science to be at or below grade school if you actually believe nonsense myth over observable facts and demonstratably false claims.

I really love your idea of massive migrations of animals walking or flying over the oceans to converge in a bitty ark too small to hold them. It's priceless. And yes he would have had to have whales too since the salinity was wrong for both them to survive and thier food. They must have beached themselves nearby and rolled to the ark lmao!!!!
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Re: A Discussion About Religion: The [Threequel]

#815
@Gandy
Way to copy and paste a discussion of evidence. Plagiarism is not very well regarded in the intellectual world. What about an actual scientific study? Such as the one I posted a while back regarding the existence of Dark Matter. Plus3 basically covered the corrections I would make but I would still like to say that you need to seriously find a science book and take another look at it if you believe all that rubbish you copied and pasted.
Image

Re: A Discussion About Religion: The [Threequel]

#816
Good call vraelan I failed to do a quick google search.
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Re: A Discussion About Religion: The [Threequel]

#817
Also there is no proof for the flood, we have conclusive proof due to mitochondrial tracking that the population was never down as low as 2 or 8. Also, what stopped the lions from eating the zebras on Noah's arc, it would have to have been a MASSIVE arc to carry 2 whales, because whales are animals and the bible states 2 of every animal entered the arc. And another point, Moses couldnt have happened either, in the original bible it was 100 yrs after the flood that Moses had his 5 minutes of fame, so 8 people suddenly turned into 100 000+ in about 100 years, pretty sure thats not possible
Go look at the Bible and look at all the generations between Noah and Moses. It wasnt only 100 years.
Solumbum I already cleared this up with you, in the original translation of the bible it was 100 years,

Re: A Discussion About Religion: The [Threequel]

#818

There should be a difference between having an opinion on something and denial of facts with no disproving evidence of those facts. The definition of stupid and unintelligent do apply to the latter.

You should be able to say that "disbelieving X in the face of these facts ..... Is stupid and unintelligent". Note how it is ot addressed at the person directly just the ideas. Because there are many cases where that would be factually correct and not much of an opinion.
Lol your such a down-to-earth person -.-
Yes actually. People who cling to fairy tales because they can't handle reality often post hilarious things. Keep the entertainment flowing.
Well im glad that made you laugh, when one believes they are above the rest, the only thing that usually humors them is the superiority illusion.

One thing still is ironic in my eyes, if your so keen in saving your time by not believing in god, why are you not saving your time by not posting in this topic "but im saving ignorants people from blindly following religion!" you may say, but you blindly follow athiesm without realizing. Theres propoganda that isnt noticable, but influences thoughts. Invisible propaganda ftw :D
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Re: A Discussion About Religion: The [Threequel]

#819
Lol your such a down-to-earth person -.-
Yes actually. People who cling to fairy tales because they can't handle reality often post hilarious things. Keep the entertainment flowing.
Well im glad that made you laugh, when one believes they are above the rest, the only thing that usually humors them is the superiority illusion.

One thing still is ironic in my eyes, if your so keen in saving your time by not believing in god, why are you not saving your time by not posting in this topic "but im saving ignorants people from blindly following religion!" you may say, but you blindly follow athiesm without realizing. Theres propoganda that isnt noticable, but influences thoughts. Invisible propaganda ftw :D
I meant wasting time believing you are going to get something better after death which is obviously untrue. Plus giving money to institutions some of which already have billions of dollars and whose helping people is often quite dubious.

I'm getting my entertainment right now right here and yea it is kind of a waste of time. But I do some research and do learn a few things so it's not all bad.

Mostly I'm not trying to convert people so much as show that people who believe myth before facts are not going to get respect. It's a trend that thankfully has been growing in many areas around the world.
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