Celtic Heroes

Wow, 84 pages?!
I've missed alot( not really... Its pretty much the same debate -.-)

Btw, I had a conversation with some friends of mine(non were christian), and someone said:" Men need women, and women need men. They are both lost without each other, and it would be less fun for both of them. So in a way, homosexuality is wrong".
This person was atheist, and supports homosexuals,but he also sees our point of view.
I just wanted to say that, because this truly amazed me.

Solumbum the reason more people are coming out as gay now than 50 years ago is because if they came out 50 years ago they would have been lynched.

Wow, 84 pages?!
I've missed alot( not really... Its pretty much the same debate -.-)

Btw, I had a conversation with some friends of mine(non were christian), and someone said:" Men need women, and women need men. They are both lost without each other, and it would be less fun for both of them. So in a way, homosexuality is wrong".
This person was atheist, and supports homosexuals,but he also sees our point of view.
I just wanted to say that, because this truly amazed me.

The problem with that morality is you are blocking other peoples happiness based on your opinion, I don't care what you believe as long as it doesn't affect other people and what they believe

[quote="Plus3"

I have noticed that some posts are mocking, and are verging away from a discussion.

To discuss, you can provide a rebuttal and put forward your argument without having to mimic, mock or put someone down.

Since this is the third thread created on this topic, I will lock the thread and ensure that no further threads are created should this behaviour continue. I don't want to lock the thread because discussion is healthy and it is evidently a popular topic, but please respect each other's beliefs. This doesn't mean you have to agree, but respect that some people might be sensitive to what you think is harmless.

I would like to point out yet again facts are not opinions. If a person denies facts, based on no evidence, then that is a literal dictionary definition of ignorance. We should be able to point out factual flaws with plain language.

Furthermore if you have been following this thread there have been racist, misogynistic, homophobic, etc opinions. Even posting them is against the TOS of this forum if you take a literal interpretation. Thus when comments like those are posted I am not going to respect that persons "opinion". No one else should in good conscience either.

If locking this post results then perhaps it is better off that way.

Well, there is a difference between mocking and being reasonable.

Homophobic: doesnt homophobic mean that you are scared of homosexuals? Because if it does, then I am certainly not a homophobe. Also, I do not hate homosexuals. Do I believe that it is a sin? You better believe it! Do I believe it is genetic? Well, I personnaly do not, but you say there is evidence that it is, and I believe that others have found evidence that it isn't. Also it doesn't really make sense that all of a sudden there are more people whose genes are telling them to be homosexuals than there were a couple hundred years ago(or even 50 years ago) when people believe the Bible. Also, even if it was genetic, there are plenty of former homosexuals that have become Christians and turned away from that life. I would also guess that there are many who have turned away from that life who certainly would not have said that they were bi-sexual(pls forgive if thats not the right word, but I believe it is). Also I think it is interesting to note that many cultures in which homosexuality(or other things that the Bible said were wrong) had become popular either ended or are a shadow of their former selves.

homophobia is the hatered or fear of homosexuals. Congrats at being part of the same religion that creates the majority of the hate against gay people in the united states. Christians also fund by far and away the majority of hate funding designed to make anti gay laws as well. Good job in making them feel bad about themselves even though "god" made them that way. Of course there are more gays today then 50 years ago - same as the fact there are no gays in Iran - they murdered the last one on Tuesday. Good to know places where it is no big deal like china are just a shadow of thier former selves. Was worried china was a super power to challenge even the united states. Lmao.

Racist: ???

Misogynistic: I believe this word means prejudiced between men and women(correct me if I am wrong).

Lets start with facts: are there differences between men and women? Duh.
Are women better at some things than men? Duh.
Are men better at some things than women? Duh.
Are some women better at things that men are usually better at and vice versa? Duh.
Are some women smarter than men and vice versa? Duh.

Now, you like to take what the Bible says are the women's responsibility in the home and say "ah-ha! There is evidence that Christians are sexist!" Well you kinda missed the part where Paul talked about the mans duty in the home. They both have different responsibilities. And when you look at it logically, instead of getting all huffy, in most cases the man is better suited to do what the Bible said a man should do and a woman is better suited for what the Bible says the woman is to do. If you look at the divorce rate from 50-100 years before now, you will find that it was less(or if this isn't true it is only because many people now don't even bother getting married). Also more people followe the Bible then. Coincidence? I think not.

yes if you mean beating the woman into submission while denying them basic rights like owning property (so they have no where to go) denying them jobs (so they can't take care of themsleves) and the right to vote (so they can't create change) then yes they cowered like cornered animals in fear but didn't get a divorce. Now that we have moved past this stone age morality that was the norm in biblical times we have a much healthier population. Coincidence? I think not.

Also I brought this up primarily because a certain person said that attractive women were asking to be raped, that the woman was to blame if a friend or family member raped them, and that it was primarily caused by women drinking. All pretty bad and the sad part was they didn't even realize they were being highly sexist.

Vraelen, I believe you said earlier that if I followed the Bibles way of doin things in a relationship, then good luck with that relationship. Well, my brothers and their wives, when they followed the Bible, have had good marriages. My parents as well. Ask many old couples and I would bet that they would tell you that what they did was similar to what the Bible says.

I also believe it is important to note that Israel, which the Bible says is Gods chosen nation, is, i believe, the only nation in the world that fell completely apart and then, although the odds were so much against them that no Las Vegas gambler would hve backed them, came back together and formed a nation.

Lmafo what? Do you not know history? The united states backed israel and used the might of the army and millitary technology to form and hold the country against its neighbors. To this day in fact. Literally dozens of nations fall apart and then reform. We are watching this right now in eastern europe. You are either being obtuse or lack a grade school level understanding of world history.[/quo

Yes, I do know history. And yes I know that the U.S. backed Israel with technology and arms. But I also know that right after the U.N. voted to allow them to become a nation, they were not allowed to gather weapons until they were officially a nation. Meanwhile, Arabs could amass all the weapons they wanted. Of course there were some weapons smuggled in, but nothing compared to what the Arabs had. Israel should have been wiped off the map. Also, no nation(to my knowledge) has been scattered to the extent that Israel had and come back together.

As for homosexuality, sexism, and racism(again where did you find racism?): Ever heard the expression beating a dead horse? I have already said that many people who call themselves Christians hate gays. I have also already said that they are wrong. When America was following the Bible, China certainly wasnt as powerful. I believe that in China if they werent a communist nation and followed the word of God, they would be a lot more powerful. So they are a shadow of what they could be. Also I personnaly would not be surprised if in the near future the anti-Christ came back and ended everything anyway. As for sexism, when you say most of that, I am guessing you are talking about what it was like 50-100 years ago and not what the Bible actually says to do? Because even in the Old Testament there was a female judge and find me the spot in the New Testament where it says that women cannot vote? Also, the Bible never says to beat your wife into submission. I didnt know that 50-100 years ago women could not get divorced. I obviously knew there was a time when they couldn't vote. They couldn't get jobs either? Or own property? I guess I should have said "when" America followed the Bible things were better. To be honest, from what I have seen, even though they may have some things they did not have 100 years ago, women are treated with much less respect than they were 100 years ago. Which is funny because all of this originally was born from the desire for respect for women(at least this seems to be true in America).

Note: I am not saying everything was perfect for women in the 1900's.

So you're against gay marriage, i love it when people make a big deal out of something that doesnt affect them in daily life

Note: I am not saying everything was perfect for women in the 1900's.

Maybe it would be nice if there was a god. Provided he turned you into a woman and sent you to live in a abusive marriage in 1900 where you had to know your place like the bible says. Ooo perhaps that's where you are going when you die!

U think women were treated with more respect 100 Years ago than now? Let me put it this way, if a women were raped 100 years ago the women would be blamed, they couldn't own property, they couldn't vote so they couldn't change, it was either marry, or die. Your knowledge of history is pathetic.

[quote="Magixal"]U think women were treated with more respect 100 Years ago than now? Let me put it this way, if a women were raped 100 years ago the women would be blamed, they couldn't own property, they couldn't vote so they couldn't change, it was either marry, or die. Your knowledge of history is pathetic.



If a women was raped a 100 years ago that was at least a big of a deal as it is now. They couldn't vote that is true. Of course that changed by 50 years ago. I believe it was at about WWII that things began improving as people realized that women could do many things just as well as men. Very long ago the reason that you pretty much had to marry was the fact that many things took very great physical strength and stamina. Of course some women had the necessary qualities to plow, etc. but we might as well face it: in the physical department, the average man trumps the average women. This in no way makes the man better; its just a fact of life. And back then, strength was needed. As brains started to matter more and more until they were about equal, women were able to depend on themselves more and more. Show me the law that said that women could not own property. Most men, even rough men that would shoot a man for snoring, wouldnt even think of swearing around a woman or a child. It was commen practice to hold the door open for a women or help them in any way possible. It is not like that now. Insults on my historical knowledge will get you no where.

Vraelen, I believe you said earlier that if I followed the Bibles way of doin things in a relationship, then good luck with that relationship.

Not quite:

^Well, all that is left for me to do is disagree with your opinions and that of the bible. Again, as I said, if you think a woman is subservient to a man in a relationship... Good luck with that relationship, lol.

I am not saying a relationship like that will completely fail but not only will a woman learn they are equal and will not like unequal treatment, but morally, as in with the survival of humanity, it is wrong and will only hinder us if yet again we perceive one group of people to be superior to another.


Edit:
There are "more gays" only because there is less hatred, if only slight, toward them. As plus3 said, there is no more killing on the spot and there are laws that protect their rights as people.

Furthermore, the "atheist side" on this discussion does not really care about your own opinion of if homosexuality is good or bad. The concern is that, like it or not, homosexuals are still people and deserve the same rights as everyone else. That includes marriage (or whatever unity custom), jobs, healthcare, insurance, etc.

You can say homosexuality is wrong but I want to hear an argument for why, especially in a country founded on liberty, would you take away a person's rights because they are different?