Celtic Heroes

Hi, some statements are contradicted.
1. "Using skills on a boss is not a violation of the ToS." Does it mean using skill on player is violating ToS? So some skills are player based: nature touch, bandage wound, rescue, bark, calm. Are using these skills on player violated ToS?

If I tell you that eating cookies is ok, does it mean that eating ice cream is suddenly not ok?

Don't try to twist someone's words just because they didn't mention something.

Also, a drunken half-wit that got hit in the head with a pile of bricks would know the answer to that question. Obviously, using skills like nature's touch on players is not against the ToS. Otherwise, essentially every player would be banned.

2. "attempting to use exploits to disrupt your play that would be a violation. " i knew usig external tool or software for gaming is prohibitted. How about the glitches or "exploits" that players had reported thousand times, such as reset point at boss. So by dragging boss or mobs to this point is violating ToS? It sound like u have made traps for players?

It sounds like you have never tried to write code before. Glitches, bugs, or exploits are all mistakes made when programming. Some are easy to fix, while others are rather difficult to pinpoint within the code. For example, OTM located and repaired the invisible Quickthorn Dryad Charm glitch rather quickly, but the DL bosses' reset points have not yet been fixed.

"Making traps" implies that OTM intentionally worsen their code by purposely making mistakes. That makes absolutely no sense.

An artist does not intentionally screw up a painting. A writer does not intentionally add typos to the manuscript. And a programmer does not intentionally create bugs inside their code. Any large-scale program written by humans will have bugs and mistakes in it—guaranteed. It's only a matter of how severe the error is, and what effect it has on functionality.

Before bashing OTM's game for having glitches, try writing a significant amount of code (I estimate 10000+ lines for a game the size of CH), shipping it, and having no bugs on runtime.

As a guide, maybe you should be nicer and less condescending.
Secondly, OTM has had over a year to fix these reset glitches. As paying customers, how long is it acceptable to wait? To me it seems like they arent interested in fixing them. Which is fine, but they need to communicate it to us. And not have some self-righteous 'guide' talking down to us about how put upon they are.

OTM is a small company. They don't have the employee base to fix all the bugs. Additionally some may be due to the engine they use and not OTM really at all. Those cant be fixed by OTM.

We will know for sure if OTM intends these reset points if they are supported under the new engine.

As a guide, maybe you should be nicer and less condescending.

I was going to insert some lame excuse here to justify that last post… but I read over it and realized that it was way too harsh.

This post will indeed be nicer and less condescending.

—————

Secondly, OTM has had over a year to fix these reset glitches. As paying customers, how long is it acceptable to wait? To me it seems like they arent interested in fixing them.

Some of the issues that need to be addressed will be in the new engine. One such is the issue of the bosses being reset, which will be fixed with the upgrade of the engine.

—————

Which is fine, but they need to communicate it to us. And not have some self-righteous 'guide' talking down to us about how put upon they are.

The last half of my previous post was from a programmer's perspective, not necessarily a guide's. Like I mentioned before, some bugs, such as the quickthorn dryad invisibility glitch, can be located and fixed easily.

Others, like the DL boss reset glitch, are seemingly far more difficult to pinpoint and repair. (If it was so easy to fix, OTM likely would have fixed it already. A very clichéd, but very true argument—OTM has no motive to worsen the quality of their game product.)

Even if you are the biggest plat buyer in the world, I don't think you can just shout at OTM "Hey guys! Fix this!" and the bug will magically go away… it's not that easy. You have to a) locate the bug in your code, b) figure out how to fix the bug, and c) make sure that the "fix" doesn't create more bugs or slow down performance speed (that last part is especially annoying). You must also do all of this while pushing out highly demanded event content and developing a new engine for iOS (and Android), as well as whatever other content OTM is currently doing.

As OTM is not a monolithic game company, I would imagine that the collective difficulty of these tasks already puts a strain on OTM's capacity (which you can clearly see from the long winter event).

Taking out one's frustration on the game-makers is popular and widespread, but people tend to forget that OTM isn't exactly Blizzard, and many still remain unaware of the difficulty of fixing bugs.

Yes, I am defending OTM, and yes, I am a guide… but I don't think that either of those facts should dampen the point of my argument. By all means, feel free to disagree with me.

Thank you.

I get they are a small company, and i get there is a ton of code.
I do hope these reset glitches are fixed with the new engine.
But we get mixed messages constantly.
In this thread, im hearing "griefing" isnt against ToS. Which i understand is a part of the game.
But i also read using game exploits IS against ToS, which i think means reseting bosses using glitches/bugs.

I dont like jumping on the pile of the game developers. They have created a game i obviously love and have been playing for over three years.
But the frustration of having these glitches be there, and ToS not being enforced (and i mean this for many things, not just glitches) it all adds up and gets people angry.

Now i feel like im rambling

Hi, some statements are contradicted.
1. "Using skills on a boss is not a violation of the ToS." Does it mean using skill on player is violating ToS? So some skills are player based: nature touch, bandage wound, rescue, bark, calm. Are using these skills on player violated ToS?

If I tell you that eating cookies is ok, does it mean that eating ice cream is suddenly not ok?

Don't try to twist someone's words just because they didn't mention something.

Also, a drunken half-wit that got hit in the head with a pile of bricks would know the answer to that question. Obviously, using skills like nature's touch on players is not against the ToS. Otherwise, essentially every player would be banned.

2. "attempting to use exploits to disrupt your play that would be a violation. " i knew usig external tool or software for gaming is prohibitted. How about the glitches or "exploits" that players had reported thousand times, such as reset point at boss. So by dragging boss or mobs to this point is violating ToS? It sound like u have made traps for players?

It sounds like you have never tried to write code before. Glitches, bugs, or exploits are all mistakes made when programming. Some are easy to fix, while others are rather difficult to pinpoint within the code. For example, OTM located and repaired the invisible Quickthorn Dryad Charm glitch rather quickly, but the DL bosses' reset points have not yet been fixed.

"Making traps" implies that OTM intentionally worsen their code by purposely making mistakes. That makes absolutely no sense.

An artist does not intentionally screw up a painting. A writer does not intentionally add typos to the manuscript. And a programmer does not intentionally create bugs inside their code. Any large-scale program written by humans will have bugs and mistakes in it—guaranteed. It's only a matter of how severe the error is, and what effect it has on functionality.

Before bashing OTM's game for having glitches, try writing a significant amount of code (I estimate 10000+ lines for a game the size of CH), shipping it, and having no bugs on runtime.

Dont get me started on collisions. Probably one of the easiest things they can do. They had a foxglove out of collision range last birthday event and re-changed the whole outline of lir collisions within a 3 day span of it being noticed. Collisions arent bugged "from coding" or so to speak. Otm doesn't just assign all collision through their code, they have a tool to place them all without having to go through thousands of numbers I'd assume.

Even if they did assign collisions through blood sweat and years through direct text... They still redid all of lirs within a few days and even removed the harmless under waterfall glitch in lirs...

Simple fix...
1: add collision on "the elevator" near snorri
2: move the rock at priest towards the wall and take off collisions at his throne
3:take off king's thrones collisions...
4:Its hard as hell to reset sreng, id give props to anyone who actually could...

Most if not all of the collision issues should be fixed in the new engine.

4:Its hard as hell to reset sreng, id give props to anyone who actually could...

I don't think Sreng can be reset (although there is a hole in the wall behind him to the left, but it's really hard to find). And since his adds don't do AoE, it's hard to grief there by pulling adds.

But since a popular way to kill him is to kite him, you can grief by doing over-bolas on him. This means that if the clan fighting him is using level 37 bolas, if you cast a level 39 bolas on him their bolas will be resisted. You then let your 39 bolas expire and he runs around for a bit killing people before they can bolas again. Same principle works with grasping roots. If their attempts at bolas miss, there is a chance that he runs around enough that he wipes the party and resets.

4:Its hard as hell to reset sreng, id give props to anyone who actually could...

I don't think Sreng can be reset (although there is a hole in the wall behind him to the left, but it's really hard to find). And since his adds don't do AoE, it's hard to grief there by pulling adds.

But since a popular way to kill him is to kite him, you can grief by doing over-bolas on him. This means that if the clan fighting him is using level 37 bolas, if you cast a level 39 bolas on him their bolas will be resisted. You then let your 39 bolas expire and he runs around for a bit killing people before they can bolas again. Same principle works with grasping roots. If their attempts at bolas miss, there is a chance that he runs around enough that he wipes the party and resets.

My friend whhite got him to reset through the pillar somehow, and is possible to reset through the wall hole as well

Who's Whhite? Does he play in Herne?

4:Its hard as hell to reset sreng, id give props to anyone who actually could...

I don't think Sreng can be reset (although there is a hole in the wall behind him to the left, but it's really hard to find). And since his adds don't do AoE, it's hard to grief there by pulling adds.

But since a popular way to kill him is to kite him, you can grief by doing over-bolas on him. This means that if the clan fighting him is using level 37 bolas, if you cast a level 39 bolas on him their bolas will be resisted. You then let your 39 bolas expire and he runs around for a bit killing people before they can bolas again. Same principle works with grasping roots. If their attempts at bolas miss, there is a chance that he runs around enough that he wipes the party and resets.

Why would you share this?