Celtic Heroes

The ring is 15% attack and 30% haste, for any boss a 30% attack and 60% haste elixir can be used with a stat, dmg, or skill ring(would solve necro problem, and future bosses), this applies for leveling too. This makes the reaper ring not the best for boss fights, or leveling. Attack elixir could solve any issues with misses if its a probelm.

The issue isn't how useful it is. It's definitely an amazing ring.

The problem is whether or not it's actually worth 3-4mill+.

The issue isn't how useful it is. It's definitely an amazing ring.

The problem is whether or not it's actually worth 3-4mill+.

Errrm white mask thingy sells for up to 1.6 mill and it's just for aesthetics. This will be a never ending argument...again happy I got one...lelz

That is true.

The ring is worth whatever someone is willing to pay for it. Like I said before, I turned down a 3m offer on mine but, I am guessing there are a couple of mages who will not be bidding.

I understand Fury's confusion about attack and defense now. You are describing over kill not a plateau. I can run over an ant with my car or a steam roller and get about the same result. I would be astounded to learn that end game bosses have 1k defense. Just look at all the misses streaming off the boss at the next fight (this is true for Hrungnir on up). Based on the data you posted (and this is consistent with others), you need to have an attack score equal to your opponent's defense to hit 50% of the time (or miss 1/2 the time if you are a pessimist). Let's assume you are happy with a 50% hit rate (I am not):

If the Mob has 5k defense, you need 5k attack
If 8k defense, you need 8k attack to hit 1/2 the time.

Sure, if you are bashing cellar rats attack doesn't matter much, but if you want to be effective against end game bosses, you need to maximize attack. You don't do any damage when you miss.

I can run over an ant with my car or a steam roller and get about the same result.

Rog!!! That mind of yours is just beautiful!!! Lelz

Some time ago, MDIMarco and others collected data on attack vs. defense. Since we don’t know the defense of mobs, the data were collected on players in duels or in the arena with known attack and defense values. Players counted the number of hits with 100 attempted hits. The range for attack was 5-1813 and defense was 10-2060 for a total of 22 data points. So, we have Attack vs. Defense and the %hits for each. I plotted the difference of Attack and Defense vs. %hits for these data and used the curve fitting function in Excel to get a formula to fit the data. The best fit was a linear equation with an R2 of 0.95. (1.0 is a perfect fit. 0.95 is quite good).

The formula:

% hits = 0.0285*(attack-defense) + 49.671


Let’s make some comparisons with the following assumptions:

Attack = 4k
Mobs defense = 5k
Weapon delay with haste = 1 sec (I know this is fast but it simplifies the math)
Damage = 3k (3050 with heat ring)
Fight duration is 15 min. (900 sec)

Using the formula I estimate the percentage hits to be 21.17%
In a 15 min fight, firing one arrow per sec, I fire 900 shots and make 190.5 hits
At 3k damage per hit that is 571,500 damage over 900 sec
Damage per second (DPS): 635

Question: What happens to DPS when you use a Reaper ring to raise Attack by 15%?

Now Attack = 4600
Keeping all the other variables the same, now percentage hits becomes 38.27%
Number of hits: 344.4
Damage: 1,033,200
DPS: 1148

DPS without the Reaper ring is 635 but increases to 1148 with the ring. More hits mean more damage but that is no surprise I hope.

What happens if we replace the Reaper ring with a 50 Heat damage ring as Furyion suggested?

The number of hits remains the same as the first example but the damage is increased to 3050.
190.5 hits X 3050 damage per hit
Damage: 581,025
DPS: 646

The damage ring improves DPS by 11 points but the Reaper ring increases DPS by 513. The Reaper ring is the clear winner here.

Of course, everyone will have to make their own decision about what a Reaper ring is worth. What do I think it is worth? Let me do the math (hmm, er, carry the 2…mmm), erm, it is worth a lot.


@OTM: Please keep the Nerf gun in its holster.

What happens if we replace the Reaper ring with a 50 Heat damage ring as Furyion suggested?

stat, dmg, or skill ring

If the damage ring doesnt work for your build try another example.

The formula:

% hits = 0.0285*(attack-defense) + 49.671

I think this formula is wrong, theres always a chance to miss unless defense is 0 or less, like the one i showed. I once missed a darkfell pict with an ice blast, and abiltys=chance to hit too. And 0 attack always misses. Also a attack too high is wasting points that can be in dps

Mobs defense = 5k

Seems too high for any boss to me, we dont know the defense though. But you did forget smoke bomb is used sometimes

The ring is 15% attack and 30% haste, for any boss a 30% attack and 60% haste elixir can be used with a stat, dmg, or skill ring(would solve necro problem, and future bosses), this applies for leveling too. This makes the reaper ring not the best for boss fights, or leveling. Attack elixir could solve any issues with misses if its a probelm.

^

Of course, everyone will have to make their own decision about what a Reaper ring is worth. What do I think it is worth? Let me do the math (hmm, er, carry the 2…mmm), erm, it is worth a lot.

If i was to say the value of it personally, 700k about. Its not old, or rare at all, theres much rarer things that can be bought with 700k. The overpricing of reaper rings kind of reminds me of camo charms, its just not worth the cost.

@OTM: Please keep the Nerf gun in its holster.

No worries about that

What happens if we replace the Reaper ring with a 50 Heat damage ring as Furyion suggested?

stat, dmg, or skill ring

If the damage ring doesnt work for your build try another example.

The formula:

% hits = 0.0285*(attack-defense) + 49.671

I think this formula is wrong, theres always a chance to miss unless defense is 0 or less, like the one i showed. I once missed a darkfell pict with an ice blast, and abiltys=chance to hit too. And 0 attack always misses. Also a attack too high is wasting points that can be in dps

Mobs defense = 5k

Seems too high for any boss to me, we dont know the defense though. But you did forget smoke bomb is used sometimes

The ring is 15% attack and 30% haste, for any boss a 30% attack and 60% haste elixir can be used with a stat, dmg, or skill ring(would solve necro problem, and future bosses), this applies for leveling too. This makes the reaper ring not the best for boss fights, or leveling. Attack elixir could solve any issues with misses if its a probelm.

^

Of course, everyone will have to make their own decision about what a Reaper ring is worth. What do I think it is worth? Let me do the math (hmm, er, carry the 2…mmm), erm, it is worth a lot.

If i was to say the value of it personally, 700k about. Its not old, or rare at all, theres much rarer things that can be bought with 700k. The overpricing of reaper rings kind of reminds me of camo charms, its just not worth the cost.

@OTM: Please keep the Nerf gun in its holster.

No worries about that

I am not going to parse this out because it is clear that you aren't going to let facts influence your position. Here are some of the highlights:

The heat damage ring was your idea. I simply demonstrated that the Reaper ring was far superior.

You can mess with the formula. Plug in some numbers and try it. Even if you can find a permutation that gives 100% chance to hit, it is possible to miss. Remember, these are average data points from 100 hits so there is variance for each data point. Bleh, I am not going to explain statistics. Suffice it to say that there are no guarantees when probabilities are concerned.

Why do you think 5k defense on an end game boss is too high? I think my estimate is on the low side. We don't know the defense of any mob but consider this. If most of our melee classes have an attack of 3-4k then, we should hit about 50% of the time if the mobs defense is 3-4k. We miss WAY more than 50%. Perhaps I am wrong about attack and defense but I have been using these faulty assumptions on Hrungnir, Mordris, Efnisien, and Garanak (may they rest in peace).

Rainbow lix to solve any attack problems: Have you tried to buy heroic haste much less heroic attack? These are not exactly easy to buy. I am skeptical when someone known for merching advocates solving all our problems with consumables.

Value of the Reaper ring: My opinion is in the 3-4m range.

I can run over an ant with my car or a steam roller and get about the same result.

Rog!!! That mind of yours is just beautiful!!! Lelz

I don't know about beautiful but certainly twisted.