Celtic Heroes

The Official Forum for Celtic Heroes, the 3D MMORPG for iOS and Android Devices

Forum rules
Display posts from previous
Sort by

Re: An Insight on Class Inequality: Rangers vs. Rogues

#131 by PartyNinja
Regarding Yakat's post:

If the right initiatives were taken towards class balance as I proposed, then group strategy importance would shoot up. Here is my take on it and based on the basis that currently, top clans are pretty homogenous meaning that 2 opposing clans are not drastically different level-wise. They pretty much both have a good amount of lvl 190's, 180's and 170's. With this out of the way let's delve into group strategy:

-If the fight will be long and the battle for lock will be tight (i.e. Hrung, Mordris, Event-Boss), then the main group will be homogenous meaning that it will be composed of around 2 rogues, rangers, warriors and mages.

The mages will provide the burst damage needed for the beginning of the fight, rogues, warriors and rangers will add to the DPS and rogues will make it so that their damage over time can tip the tables in their favor.

-If the fight is a relatively short one (i.e. DL bosses), then the group will primarily have mages with rangers and DPS warriors.

Again, mages will provide the nuking power primordial for the first few seconds of fight and rangers and warriors will complement with their relatively higher ranged and melee attacks.

This is just my take on it, and again, depending on the gear of the clan members, every strategy will be specialized for every clan. All I am stressing is the need for strategy. This will be the case only if class roles are truly defined and implemented
I think the part we disagree on is dps being a universal role. I don't think every class should have equal dps. That's like saying every class should have big heals and the ability to keep agro. Dps is as much a main role in itself as tanking or healing.
much stupidity many dumb ideas jk
yakat doesnt want faster endgame kills he wants slower more boring kills for everything... including training.
Image

Re: An Insight on Class Inequality: Rangers vs. Rogues

#132 by Arjunlite
I see two different types of "DPS":

- damage at a given instant
- damage over the course of a defined duration

Damage classes should have an all-round same "damage-at-a-given-instant" through different means (hence classes) and rogues should be the "damage-over-the-defined-duration" class.

And there lies the problem. Some classes don't have the first type of damage because of:

-energy issues (druids, mages)
-broken skills (rangers, druids)
-skills that need improvement (mages,druids,rangers) (i.e. energy costs, skill cooldowns, skill cast time-skill cooldown play)
-wrong stat-based skills (dex instead of strength)
etc.

That's where I'm voicing my complaints as well as others.
Druid Guide - Role, Build, Stats and Gear
Rogue Guide - Role, Build, Stats and Gear
Dual-Device Guide - For The Hardcore Players
Dragonlord Armour Revamp - Compilation Thread

Re: An Insight on Class Inequality: Rangers vs. Rogues

#134 by Arjunlite
Regarding people arguing that rangers getting kills on some bosses is an indication that nothing is wrong:

To me, as it stands with the current game engine, "who gets the kill" should not be a factor for concluding who is more powerful than the other. Many factors come into play in a fight such as inattention from the person behind the screen, helping on adds vs. sticking to boss, lag etc.

Rangers getting the kill on some fights is the result of many things that has accumulated over the one year period since expansion 4. It is the result of poor class-balancing and most importantly the broken skill system rangers are faced with and that has made them go for a full auto-build, accumulating all the possible damage gear to increase their dps. Furthermore, the "great" DL quiver skill is only accessible to high-end rangers in top clans. What about 90% of the remaining ranger population?

A clear indication that something is wrong is the fact that when I dual log my ranger and my rogue, my iPhone where my ranger is logged on sits by my side where I barely glance at it for the duration of the fight. I'm just hasted and shooting some arrows with the occasional sharpen weapons/steady aim buff and double shot. On my lap is my rogue where I am constantly assessing the environment and responding to adds, and hitting skills. That's a big problem and needs to be addressed.
Druid Guide - Role, Build, Stats and Gear
Rogue Guide - Role, Build, Stats and Gear
Dual-Device Guide - For The Hardcore Players
Dragonlord Armour Revamp - Compilation Thread

Re: An Insight on Class Inequality: Rangers vs. Rogues

#135 by yakat
Yakat you believe in class roles right? Then go be a tank ur a warrior stop being dps ur role is tank ok?
Warrior's main role is to tank. Our secondary role is dps. As a dps warrior I should not have comparable dps to a rogue(who's main role is dps, secondary is support). I'm happy with having crappy dps because its not my job. Now, warrior dps isn't so bad that you can't level or help on bosses. Any class that goes dps can deal enough damage to be significant. I'm not saying rangers shouldn't be able to go dps because all classes should. I don't believe rangers should be able to compete with a rogue by switching to their secondary role. I don't think all classes should have equal damage at a given time. I think mages need that.

@TheParty
My concern isn't an easier endgame, it's class balance.
Image
If two wrongs don't make a right, try three.
~Laurence J. Peter

Re: An Insight on Class Inequality: Rangers vs. Rogues

#137 by mookiejoe
any person who plays can tell you that rogues far outpace rangers and it is entirely a skill problem. My stats on 199 ranger are equal or better than 199 rogue, all top end gear and yet don't come close to kills. Right now run a str build but have played extensively on both builds. Rangers have nothing even close to the equil of SS or QS. Rangers are also required to carry bola and in most cases to set at a group level...like 200 and so we lose a ton of points vs rogue. Biggest problem is probably that rangers have no str skills. When you play a str rogue you can have BOTH high autos and high skill hits. A str ranger is limited to autos and double shot...which becomes pointless when using a haste. Running a str rogue you can have autos boosted and improve qs, rip and if you like double attack. so you get like 4x the bonus from adding str.

Make sharp shot instant like SS, make barbed str and increase its dot, fix rapid shot so you can max it to exceed haste lix, get rid of the stupid and poorly designed longshot distance requirement...and make it str. Fix LH and BOLA in PVP...

Re: An Insight on Class Inequality: Rangers vs. Rogues

#140 by mookiejoe
i would just like to say this about longshit and ss since both were added at the same time. WTF is up with longshit? It was supposed to be our new exciting dmg skill and it's such a turd.

If you kite bosses it's completely useless. If a boss closes on you then you cant use it. It's cool down is so...so slow. The damage from longshit is so...so messed up that my dmg from double is usually close to longshit and guess what? Never misses and can be used at close range. I know of no decent ranger on my server who uses longshit. I maxed the skill using a GODLY (freaking **godly**) ring which added dmg and the dmg still (STILL) fell in a range close to DS, and when the cooldown and misses were factored in DS was still better.

Also none of the ranger skills can be used from staff...lol...you watch rogues fly around using ss...hell I made rogues just to be able to farm unfathomable without being constantly KS by people. Something is horribly broken when a player is forced to make another toon to address broken game issues. If you are a ranger you need to make either a warr or rogue to pvp and a rogue to farm.
Post Reply

Return to “General Discussion”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 30 guests