Celtic Heroes

Why would a "battle mage" rely any more on cloak than a regular caster? Regardless of which build you use, you're gonna be hit by mobs about the same amount. It is not as if you have infinite root skills as a pure caster and can avoid getting hit. Cloak itself is a fairly mediocre skill to begin with, except maybe for powerleveling low levels (maybe someone can help seipper out ). And the people arguing for a melee build have also brought up bossing as a component, giving me every right to criticize it from that perspective.

Here's what seipper said:
"First I might add that during my post I held back from a lol emote because its rude and pointless but nvm. Your entire post is irrelavent . I did not say its great for bossing but it can be with correct gear and build. I have througout my time in celtic heroes been doing a build kinda like a lot of the builds that furyion talks about and I myself have recently got back into finishing my melee mage guide. melee is great for soloing as you can quickly drain your mob. your aoe range thingy can be fixed from using a wand with high range. Melee is great for farming as well as you can kill lots of mobs at once. I know for bossing melee isnt really the best thing but its great for everything else(its still great at bossing:P)."

Clearly he is under the false impression that meleeing a boss is remotely effective. Furyion also argued that melees can be bonus damage if you gear swap correctly- something that can only be done effectively on bosses.

Oh and seipper- if you're gonna go through the trouble to thank someone (who didn't do anything for you btw), you may as well give him the courtesy of spelling his name correctly. It is literally right there for you to copy lol

I simply said that blakmumbuh got back on topic to savaged. Why do you say it is a bad thing? So here, I take back my acceptance that you may have possible done something right. I never should have said thank you as in you there is nothing I can possibly thank. <- This what you want?

Btw it is great on bosses as everything furyion said is true and so is everything I have said, but it is our opinion and you can have yours. Mods I do not understand why this topic has not been locked. It is pretty much discussing a locked topic ( against the rules), and it is designed solely to make furyion and me angry(especially me as he is directing insults).

Mods I do not understand why this topic has not been locked. It is pretty much discussing a locked topic ( against the rules), and it is designed solely to make furyion and me angry(especially me as he is directing insults).

First of all, discussing a locked topic is not against the ToS. The topic probably got locked because there was a flame war, but the subject itself can still be discusses in another topic.

Second, mamba and savage are stating their opinion. Yet you allow them not to tell their experience, but you epect them to believe a low level mage who hasn't done a single raid boss in its life to lecture them whats the best at end-game. If you don't want to get bashed don't post stupid posts.

Back on topic:

[quote="Seipper"
Btw it is great on bosses as everything furyion said is true and so is everything I have said[/quote]

Name one boss where this build is 'great' please? I can't think of any.

Mods I do not understand why this topic has not been locked. It is pretty much discussing a locked topic ( against the rules), and it is designed solely to make furyion and me angry(especially me as he is directing insults).

First of all, discussing a locked topic is not against the ToS. The topic probably got locked because there was a flame war, but the subject itself can still be discusses in another topic.

Second, mamba and savage are stating their opinion. Yet you allow them not to tell their experience, but you epect them to believe a low level mage who hasn't done a single raid boss in its life to lecture them whats the best at end-game. If you don't want to get bashed don't post stupid posts.

Back on topic:

[quote="Seipper"
Btw it is great on bosses as everything furyion said is true and so is everything I have said

Name one boss where this build is 'great' please? I can't think of any.

All of them it as it does decent dps. I would be glad to discuss a melee mage like actual civilized people. This will not happen as if you read earlier posts in both threads they will show you black mamba is simply directing insults. he is not even thinking of actual reasons rather namecalling and being purposefully ignorant becuase he is high level. I clearly I know lots more about this whole subject as he also said he has not even tried melee.

Mods I do not understand why this topic has not been locked. It is pretty much discussing a locked topic ( against the rules), and it is designed solely to make furyion and me angry(especially me as he is directing insults).

First of all, discussing a locked topic is not against the ToS. The topic probably got locked because there was a flame war, but the subject itself can still be discusses in another topic.

Second, mamba and savage are stating their opinion. Yet you allow them not to tell their experience, but you epect them to believe a low level mage who hasn't done a single raid boss in its life to lecture them whats the best at end-game. If you don't want to get bashed don't post stupid posts.

Back on topic:

[quote="Seipper"
Btw it is great on bosses as everything furyion said is true and so is everything I have said

Name one boss where this build is 'great' please? I can't think of any.

All of them it as it does decent dps. I would be glad to discuss a melee mage like actual civilized people. This will not happen as if you read earlier posts in both threads they will show you black mamba is simply directing insults. he is not even thinking of actual reasons rather namecalling and being purposefully ignorant becuase he is high level. I clearly I know lots more about this whole subject as he also said he has not even tried melee.

I am open to discuss this. This auto mage build is not good on raid bosses because:

-aggy uses a high lvl dot skill, due to mages low armour they will die definitely if they get hit by this. As a caster or ranger you can stay out of range of this. A dead dps is no dps.

-Hrungnir uses a high direct damage aeo skill called shambling strike, and when its low on health it uses an area lifesteal skill called fetid feast. Bottom line:casters will be on non-stop timers if they are in range because they have to auto the boss. Again a dead dps is no dps.

- Mordris uses the same dot skill as aggy, only more powerfull and when it is low on health it will use two extra skills: he will stamp on the ground and that creates a massive damage aeo even melees like rogues and dps wars have trouble with and a cloak that does 500+ damaege per hit if your low on armour and chaos resist. Again you will be on non-stop timers and a dead dps is no dps.

Necro uses an area lifesteal skill. And on this boss I may agree with you that an auto mage may be usefull to kill the bound spirits. But even here mages are most needed for lures. They are defo not the dps that will kill this boss. Thats the main job of the rangers/rogues.

Ofcourse you all knew this. So my question for you is: is it worth getting in the aeo range of those bosses to sacrifice your damage of your skills to get maybe 200-400 auto attacks? And how will you deal with the aeos? I am thriled to hear your magic tricks for these situations and proof that an auto mage is more powerfull then an auto mage on these bosses.

In addition to all the points he made above, you also to factor in that with such low attack you will be hitting bosses less than 1/4 the time. Maybe much lower. Sigs don't work either, and you'll have to be hasting all the time. I'd say that if you full dpsed on skain 6* as a melee mage you'd burn about 20k+ worth of plat. And don't even get me started on 210 edl lol. I'm sure seipper could get fury to tell him how that would go? Or no, fury isn't high enough level to attend that either

In addition to all the points he made above, you also to factor in that with such low attack you will be hitting bosses less than 1/4 the time. Maybe much lower. Sigs don't work either, and you'll have to be hasting all the time. I'd say that if you full dpsed on skain 6* as a melee mage you'd burn about 20k+ worth of plat. And don't even get me started on 210 edl lol. I'm sure seipper could get fury to tell him how that would go? Or no, fury isn't high enough level to attend that either

And I am sure that because you are high level clearly you know everything. Why can you not just understand the facts. Endgame bosses(which I still know quite a bit about) have no relevance at all to knowledge about builds. Only time they do is when its a bossing build. Every point Furyion made is true HE COMPARED THE NUMBERS its obvious that he is correct. I believe that the only reason that you keep trying to jam endgame bosses in my face is because that is all you really know about in this game. Then you talk about how I am just following fury I AM NOT. I did not even know him until the previous battle-mage thread. So pretty much all your points are utterly irrelevant, and even if they were not one issue with a build is not enough to destroy it. The basic caster build does in fact have a lot of issues. Here are some of the caster-mages issues: energy problems even with sigils(melee fixes that), waiting on recharges on all casters even fire tho I guess more ice(melee fixes that),
difficult soloing(melee fixes that). These are just some of the many issues with caster(not saying caster is bad, but it has just as many if not more issues than melee).

Here are some of the caster-mages issues: energy problems even with sigils(melee fixes that), waiting on recharges on all casters even fire tho I guess more ice(melee fixes that),
difficult soloing(melee fixes that). These are just some of the many issues with caster(not saying caster is bad, but it has just as many if not more issues than melee).

You can't sigil with melee build, so that's your energy issues solved being full caster.

You should never solo as a mage, that's why you have lures. The only time you should solo is until level 130ish, and then you hit boggan caves. You're in your level 120s right, don't you solo level?


Issues with melee:
- You get up close to anything you fight, meaning you are susceptible to AoE damage, as well as have to deal with any sort of cloak on the enemy.
- You lose the advantage to lock bosses, since your skill damage will be lower, and don't have much time to auto attack.
- Especially as a fire mage, once you get cool down reduction items, you don't have time to melee.
- As mentioned before, you don't have time to sigil. Not only does this mean energy, but you won't be able to regen health unless you use a pot/lix/get healed by another person.


You claim that melee build is good on bosses, because it does more DPS... Please, if you want to discuss the topic in a civilized manner, then firstly show proof that you do more damage, and also consider the fact that you are only level 120.. Sure you can speculate on builds, but you need actual experience to say that it's good for bosses.

Here are some of the caster-mages issues: energy problems even with sigils(melee fixes that), waiting on recharges on all casters even fire tho I guess more ice(melee fixes that),
difficult soloing(melee fixes that). These are just some of the many issues with caster(not saying caster is bad, but it has just as many if not more issues than melee).

You can't sigil with melee build, so that's your energy issues solved being full caster.

You should never solo as a mage, that's why you have lures. The only time you should solo is until level 130ish, and then you hit boggan caves. You're in your level 120s right, don't you solo level?


Issues with melee:
- You get up close to anything you fight, meaning you are susceptible to AoE damage, as well as have to deal with any sort of cloak on the enemy.
- You lose the advantage to lock bosses, since your skill damage will be lower, and don't have much time to auto attack.
- Especially as a fire mage, once you get cool down reduction items, you don't have time to melee.
- As mentioned before, you don't have time to sigil. Not only does this mean energy, but you won't be able to regen health unless you use a pot/lix/get healed by another person.


You claim that melee build is good on bosses, because it does more DPS... Please, if you want to discuss the topic in a civilized manner, then firstly show proof that you do more damage, and also consider the fact that you are only level 120.. Sure you can speculate on builds, but you need actual experience to say that it's good for bosses.

I do not claim it does more damage on an endgame boss. A caster can very often do more damage although sometimes melee can win just like sometimes ice can beat fire. Melee is just better for everything else other than bossing and group leveling hands down. Armo, you know a ton about this game and in your guide you even mentioned melee mages. I do not understand why you want to disregard what I am saying simply because of my level. Ok maybe I do not know as much about endgame bosses, what about all my other points?

I agree that melee dmg with procs could be really cool, but here are two things that would easily counter it :

1. Loss of skills dmg ..... Ok, u counter it with gear swap.
2. U wont have enough attack to actually hit the boss, that means it worths completely nothing, and no, u cant switch enough gear to make it viable.

For those of u who dont know (uhm fury), attack helps u actually land these melees on the mobs/bosses and not just have x dmg, that is something u learn when before trying to be battle/melee/crim rules mage, u actually try melee class first.