Celtic Heroes

Like I said gb15, when a clan manages to kill gele unlixed, no restos used, and no idols used then I'll believe the game is not p2w.

Just because a few bosses require plat items to be taken down doesn't make the entire game a pay to win, that's simply just being overly dramatic. Even though plat items are necessary to take down those bosses you still don't see every single person taking out there wallets just for one boss because why pay when you can buy off of other players. And since everyone has Lixs at endgame (or should) no one has an advantage over anyone.

When you say a game is a "pay to win" then that means that plat buyers will always have an advantage over none plat buyers in all Aspects of this game. Leveling, gear, bosses, PvP, fishing, etc... And otm has done a very good job at keeping this game balanced between non plat buyers and plat buyers. It use to be way worse back in the day but otm has been doing nothing but making things easier for non plat buyers such as reducing low level lux prices, bounties, bounty shop, fishing, and even raid bosses because raid gear can be just as good as lux items. Oh, and you can't forget about the newest feature, the XP curve

You could argue that pets and battle mounts give an unfair advantage at boss battles in which they do in a way but that's one single aspect of the game and even then the gap between plat buyers and non plat buyers is minimal.

Like I said gb15, when a clan manages to kill gele unlixed, no restos used, and no idols used then I'll believe the game is not p2w.

Just because a few bosses require plat items to be taken down doesn't make the entire game a pay to win, that's simply just being overly dramatic. Even though plat items are necessary to take down those bosses you still don't see every single person taking out there wallets just for one boss because why pay when you can buy off of other players. And since everyone has Lixs at endgame (or should) no one has an advantage over anyone.

When you say a game is a "pay to win" then that means that plat buyers will always have an advantage over none plat buyers in all Aspects of this game. Leveling, gear, bosses, PvP, fishing, etc... And otm has done a very good job at keeping this game balanced between non plat buyers and plat buyers. It use to be way worse back in the day but otm has been doing nothing but making things easier for non plat buyers such as reducing low level lux prices, bounties, bounty shop, fishing, and even raid bosses because raid gear can be just as good as lux items.

You should argue that pets and battle mounts give an unfair advantage at boss battles in which they do in a way but that's one single aspect of the game and even then the gap between plat buyers and non plat buyers is minimal.

Ok let's put it this way. What if plat buyers had never plat items and you had clans with only plat buyers. How would that have changed things up to this point?

Nothing would change because Lixs would be in the market regardless. And if a clan decided not to sell any Lixs to anyone outside of the clan, that wouldn't make the game a pay to win, that would make the opposing clan a bunch of jack asses. But since this will never happen and there will always be plat buyers on both sides we should have nothing to worry about.

Nothing would change because Lixs would be in the market regardless. And if a clan decided not to sell any Lixs to anyone outside of the clan, that wouldn't make the game a pay to win, that would make the opposing clan a bunch of jack asses. But since this will never happen and there will always be plat buyers on both sides we should have nothing to worry about.

This makes no sense and contradicts what you said pay to win is. If one clan had a advantage over another clan because of items acquired through micro transactions, it's not pay to win? This game is pay to win regardless if the pay to win items are being sold, as stated numerous times, some bosses cannot be killed without the use of items that are obtained through micro transactions. Lvling is dominated by people who use knowledge elixirs and other stat boosting platinum items. PvP is dominated by people who use platinum items then go into the arena or enter into a duel with another. To say that this game isn't P2W would be false. To say that you don't have to spend money to be successful would be true, but you would be put at a severe disadvantage to others who use platinum items, and in some cases not be able to do all that a platinum buyer can.

OTM has not done a good job at making this game less P2W. Raid gear should always be superior to store bought items, as this isn't always the case OTM failed in this aspect. Bounties were smart but then you can only do 2 normally and 4 more with bounty pledges, which can be bought in the platinum shop instead of the ulterior method of earning them.

One thing I may add, the XP curve. Yes this helps non plat buying people, but it also comes into effect with exp boosting items. Therefore this curve helps everyone, plat buyer and non-plat buyer. So to say that this makes the game less P2W would also be false, all it does it make the lvling experience faster for everyone, and even gives EXP boosts more exp to double, triple, and quadruple. After all 5 x 3 yields a bigger answer and difference than 1 x 3. For example: 4000 xp per kill times 4, which is a 12,000 xp gap between non plat and plat buyers, vs 4400 xp per kill times 4, which is a 13,200 difference between plat buyer and non plat buyers. This xp curve only widened the advantage plat buyers have.

Nothing would change because Lixs would be in the market regardless. And if a clan decided not to sell any Lixs to anyone outside of the clan, that wouldn't make the game a pay to win, that would make the opposing clan a bunch of jack asses. But since this will never happen and there will always be plat buyers on both sides we should have nothing to worry about.

This makes no sense and contradicts what you said pay to win is. If one clan had a advantage over another clan because of items acquired through micro transactions, it's not pay to win? This game is pay to win regardless if the pay to win items are being sold, as stated numerous times, some bosses cannot be killed without the use of items that are obtained through micro transactions. Lvling is dominated by people who use knowledge elixirs and other stat boosting platinum items. PvP is dominated by people who use platinum items then go into the arena or enter into a duel with another. To say that this game isn't P2W would be false. To say that you don't have to spend money to be successful would be true, but you would be put at a severe disadvantage to others who use platinum items, and in some cases not be able to do all that a platinum buyer can.

OTM has not done a good job at making this game less P2W. Raid gear should always be superior to store bought items, as this isn't always the case OTM failed in this aspect. Bounties were smart but then you can only do 2 normally and 4 more with bounty pledges, which can be bought in the platinum shop instead of the ulterior method of earning them.

I think you forgot that Lixs are pretty much available to everyone. Plus what Zyz said about Lixs only being available to the dominant clan is highly unrealistic and it's honestly hard to argue against because of how unrealistic it is.

It's pretty easy to understand why some lux items are better than raid gear. If all raid gear was better than lux than there would be no point in buying lux which would hurt sales in some way. Ofc otm has to give plat buyers a reason to buy plat and therefor giving plat buyer the slightest advantage in some aspects, but they manage keep that gap between plat buyers and non plat buyer minimal to keep both sides happy. Buying plat is most certainly not a necessity now days because of many lixs there are in each market so this game is not a pay to win

So your saying plat items give an advantage, which are obtained through micro-transactions. Someone had to buy these items in the first place. Just because an item is available to buy from another player, that is obtained with real money, doesn't mean that platinum items are not pay to win. I don't know why anyone thinks vendor bought items, through a currency that can be bought with real money, should ever be more powerful than raid items that require time and effort to achieve. The purpose of vendor items, imo and probably most other mmo players, is to allow you to progress through the game normally and allow you to start earning the powerful raid gear. Wether that gear is through a currency obtained from bosses or directly from the boss, or through crafting with rare items. The most powerful items should be raid items or craft items, a way to actually work for the gear, and never ever by means of dropping a few hundred bucks on the game and getting geared for no other reason than having money to burn. Lux items are great for those that aren't part of clans and prefer solo, but they should never be on par with endgame raid items.

Nothing would change because Lixs would be in the market regardless. And if a clan decided not to sell any Lixs to anyone outside of the clan, that wouldn't make the game a pay to win, that would make the opposing clan a bunch of jack asses. But since this will never happen and there will always be plat buyers on both sides we should have nothing to worry about.

You're right and everyone else is wrong. Grats!

OTM server hosting, unity engine license fees, developer salaries, office space rental, etc... don't pay themselves. There needs to be a cash flow for there to be a game, it's the way the real world economy is set up. That said, CH is about the least pay to play/win mmo game I've seen. FFS, some games you can only get the best end game equips from purchased chests. I don't think binding raid drops to the person they land on is the answer, so there really is no way to stop trading. I think there is a good balance between plat items/ trading/ alternative methods of leveling.

There isn't a boss that requires plat to win provided you have enough players, have good teamwork, and don't need to lock battle. They even fixed spring of life so it's mildly useful. But with a messy lock fight that looks like a herd of cats zerging a lawnmower, it turns into pay to win.

Pay to win means that without paying you wouldn't be able to beat the game. In mmorpg beating the game essentially means killing the eg boss/getting its good gear. Without heroic lixes idols and restos which are obtainable through SOMEONE buying plat, you wouldn't be able to kill the eg boss and therefore not be able to "win" the game. It's not so hard to understand gb15. Maybe if you were eg