Celtic Heroes

People “all can’t start a business and get rich,” and people all don’t have equal potential.

True. No analogy will 100% fit the comparison. I also agree no system is 'the best' we all have preferences and a system that fits within one culture will be completely illogical for another.

We're garunteed equal opportunity, not equal results.

We're garunteed equal opportunity, not equal results.

We aren't. In Epona a poor person might not be able to afford the haste at every boss so he can't attend some bosses. Same with a business, you might be a great businessman but without the 100k+ capital to start your business and weather the initial loss you can go bankrupt. A person with the capital can weather the initial loss till it becomes profitable. Definitively disproving 'equal opportunity'.

There are also bits of capitalism here and there. With money not being equally shared. But at the same time in CH money is not equal to power like it is in a true capitalist society

In our small utopia’s we have developed systems which work great in a game evironment always room for improvement but they work

Besides Epona, in most worlds where the desired object is raid gear. Gold ≠ Money. DKP = Money.

We're garunteed equal opportunity, not equal results.

We aren't. In Epona a poor person might not be able to afford the haste at every boss so he can't attend some bosses. Same with a business, you might be a great businessman but without the 100k+ capital to start your business and weather the initial loss you can go bankrupt. A person with the capital can weather the initial loss till it becomes profitable. Definitively disproving 'equal opportunity'.

You're confusing opportunity with circumstances. A poor person in epona has access to the same marketplace as everyone else - and they can buy plat for hastes, just like anyone else. Wether they choose not to for whatever reason is entirely up to them. Raising money to start a new business is entirely possible, regardless of your background. Again, you aren't garunteed to be successful, but the opportunity is there. It's completely up to you.

Im not really gonna engage in the topic but Id like to ask two questions.

1. In Epona, if u cant afford to haste at bosses u cant take part in the boss/earn gear from it?

2. In ur opinion, how do compare DKP, rolling and voting to the rl politics systems?

We're garunteed equal opportunity, not equal results.

We aren't. In Epona a poor person might not be able to afford the haste at every boss so he can't attend some bosses. Same with a business, you might be a great businessman but without the 100k+ capital to start your business and weather the initial loss you can go bankrupt. A person with the capital can weather the initial loss till it becomes profitable. Definitively disproving 'equal opportunity'.

You're confusing opportunity with circumstances. A poor person in epona has access to the same marketplace as everyone else - and they can buy plat for hastes, just like anyone else. Wether they choose not to for whatever reason is entirely up to them. Raising money to start a new business is entirely possible, regardless of your background. Again, you aren't garunteed to be successful, but the opportunity is there. It's completely up to you.

How is he confusing it?

Saying everyone has the same opportunities is saying they have the same circumstances. It’s viable that people can earn and move out of their starting place in society. That’s the pursuit.

But I didn’t work harder than another person to be born into a family wealthy enough to give me a private education, to have better opportunities in life to make money — to be able to spend disposable income on the game; the very premise that makes this game possible.

Does hard work matter? Absolutely. But I promise you the kid that went to an inner city public school had to work much harder to be at the same level as me. Privilege exists, and that grays the line of “opportunity.”

That transcends into the opportunities in the game. No money? Work longer and harder to get the same things as me.

We aren't. In Epona a poor person might not be able to afford the haste at every boss so he can't attend some bosses. Same with a business, you might be a great businessman but without the 100k+ capital to start your business and weather the initial loss you can go bankrupt. A person with the capital can weather the initial loss till it becomes profitable. Definitively disproving 'equal opportunity'.

You're confusing opportunity with circumstances. A poor person in epona has access to the same marketplace as everyone else - and they can buy plat for hastes, just like anyone else. Wether they choose not to for whatever reason is entirely up to them. Raising money to start a new business is entirely possible, regardless of your background. Again, you aren't garunteed to be successful, but the opportunity is there. It's completely up to you.

How is he confusing it?

Saying everyone has the same opportunities is saying they have the same circumstances. It’s viable that people can earn and move out of their starting place in society. That’s the pursuit.

But I didn’t work harder than another person to be born into a family wealthy enough to give me a private education, to have better opportunities in life to make money — to be able to spend disposable income on the game; the very premise that makes this game possible.

Does hard work matter? Absolutely. But I promise you the kid that went to an inner city public school had to work much harder to be at the same level as me. Privilege exists, and that grays the line of “opportunity.”

That transcends into the opportunities in the game. No money? Work longer and harder to get the same things as me.

Its slightly different than the analogy u presented. In rl, a kid in public school or kid in private school are due their parents' wealth, they didnt work for it. In game if u have money its because u spent time and worked for it, and if someone else doesnt have its because he didnt. Neither of u inherit the money from "parents" in game. He wont work longer and harder, he'll work as hard and as long, simply in different times. U did it before him, thus ur advantegous, but u still need to work to maintain that.

You're confusing opportunity with circumstances. A poor person in epona has access to the same marketplace as everyone else - and they can buy plat for hastes, just like anyone else. Wether they choose not to for whatever reason is entirely up to them. Raising money to start a new business is entirely possible, regardless of your background. Again, you aren't garunteed to be successful, but the opportunity is there. It's completely up to you.

How is he confusing it?

Saying everyone has the same opportunities is saying they have the same circumstances. It’s viable that people can earn and move out of their starting place in society. That’s the pursuit.

But I didn’t work harder than another person to be born into a family wealthy enough to give me a private education, to have better opportunities in life to make money — to be able to spend disposable income on the game; the very premise that makes this game possible.

Does hard work matter? Absolutely. But I promise you the kid that went to an inner city public school had to work much harder to be at the same level as me. Privilege exists, and that grays the line of “opportunity.”

That transcends into the opportunities in the game. No money? Work longer and harder to get the same things as me.

Its slightly different than the analogy u presented. In rl, a kid in public school or kid in private school are due their parents' wealth, they didnt work for it. In game if u have money its because u spent time and worked for it, and if someone else doesnt have its because he didnt. Neither of u inherit the money from "parents" in game. He wont work longer and harder, he'll work as hard and as long, simply in different times. U did it before him, thus ur advantegous, but u still need to work to maintain that.

Nah, bought 800 chests on double plat and another 200 in the following weeks. Dragon Eggs, Rare mounts, more idols than the entire server will ever use.

I worked for my money, sure. But again that goes back to my position in society didn’t cause me to work nearly as hard as others to be at the level of comfort I have achieved.

Saying that doesn’t equate to in game currency is a farce. People on my server have collected and amassed gold and gear over years of effort, and I’ve been able to level that playing field with disposable income. Sure, age matters. Even a 20 year old on my same path doesn’t have the same opportunities, but overall — my point is that we do not, in fact, have the same opportunities.

What H3RO is referring to is guaranteeing equality of opportunity versus equality of outcome. A lot of people conflate the two.

It’s an interesting topic, people interested should look it up; There’s a lot of studies on it.

[Moved to Off Topic]