Celtic Heroes

dsgrendar: I am sorry I cannot reply private messages but we can continue that discussion at another location. Share your email adress or skype id and our conversation can continue there.

i disagree, look at world of warcraft. It ruined the game by allowing all classes take any role. It is important to create classes with specializations.

Did you actually read the link in my post? As the video shows you why the hybrid system was such a failure. And why the holy trinity is not fun. Its just the way that you implement the roles as GuildWars 2 seems to do it just right. No Holy Trinity.

Here it is for you:

Hey thanks for posting this, could you elaborate on what a real agro system would be?

Have you seen the linked video? Fast forward to 2:37, the threat mechanic.

This is the exact problem in any traditional MMO. Its not really that fun either. I'd rather kill monsters on my own than play with my friends in a party. Killing, tanking or healing, I feel like a machine!

Other people might think differently, but I think that the perfect system should "challenge" all players.

The only way to be able to change the aggro system is: changing the combat system. Removing the holy trinity. Give all classes the ability to heal, deal damage and tank. Now you might think "how can classes be unique?" skip to 5:20.

Also (again) GW2 did a very good job in making classes unique, but still give them the ability to deal damage, heal, tank and other stuff. Today there was actually a first public PvP match at Gamescon 2011. You can follow these matches live on Friday 19th, Saturday 20th and Sunday 21. This is the link + schedule. Both PvP and PvE are great fun!
Why? Because theres teamwork and active combat involved.

Now back to the aggro system: now that everyone can fill in diffirent roles, monster aggro could now be based on different threats, max dmg, lowest armor or other random mechanics. Because now teamwork is required.

EDIT: I can of course never expect you to make a game like that on the Ipod/Ipad. But I'd really like you to take this as an example.

I have never been a fan of guild wars, but I understand your point yes, but i am not obligated to agree with it.
I disagree with removing it, I believe in having tanks, healers and damage dealers. There aremany ways to make tanking fun even healing by introducing strategic boss fights.

I am ok in making each class play two roles, for example warriors go tank or damage.

I know that you do not have to remove that you call "the holy trinity" inorder to make the game fun and ballanced. I say leave the holy trinity. but work them out a bit more.

Gw2 is nothing like Gw1 tough.

Of course you can make a fun game with the trinity, but its a lot easier without it.
Blizzard created these boss fights really well. Healers had to pay attention to the actual game a tittlebit more rather than watching health bars 100% of the time.

This would be a rough example of a system without the trinity:
Imagine a mob (or boss) attacking the Druid of a party, the Ranger cripples the mob while the Rogue unleaches his attacks. The Druid runs away. The mob is moving too slow to catch up with the Druid so he starts dealing with the Rogue. After 20 seconds the Rogues health starts to get low so he uses his stealth skill to heal himself and vanish in the shadows. The Druid healed himself and takes over aggro from the Rogue. The Ranger uses his party buff to give the party 75% chance to block attacks for 5 seconds. The Druid runs around the ranger to lose aggro as the buff expires, giving him a chance to escape. The Ranger uses his "throw dirt" skill to blind the mob for 5 seconds. The Rogue stabs the mob in his back revealing himself from his stealth. The mob hits the floor thanks to the awesome Teamwork

I see your point, but thats just one fight and with that example you dont have to remove the holy trinity.
I say all mmo's can learn from the early world of warcraft. Even if the game might not be liked by all players, and there are many who hates it. Nevertheless world of warcraft is the biggest MMO in mmo history.
When we come to bossfights you can make them very interesting by:

Additional Monsters during the fight
This somewhat already exist, due to the extremly fast respawntime, and the extremly long boss fight. So nearby monsters will respawn once or twice. But make it even more challanging, and let boss summon minions?

Area of Effect attacks
Make bosses throw bombs, or cast spells that effect an area.

Random target abilities
Boss uses an ability on a random target, could be a damage over time, or some stun, or what have you. The important part with this, whatever the ability is there must be a way to control it. A damage over time requires heal, a stun should be able to unstun with dispel or something. Otherwise the bossfight will be depending on chance.

There are tons of things that could be added, how about rampage when only 10% left, attacking twice as fast or double damage, or make him invanurable to physical damage, and can only be hit by magical damage, or cold/heat.


But before thinking of making the bosses more fun, make it more interesting playing healer. Because as for now, there is nothing out there that motivates you, there is nothing to fight for but experiance. Gold and Items are just pointless as a druid in my opinion, as long weight and armorm or staff damage is the only upgrade you can find.

Hi thanks a lot for the posts here.

Druid should get more interesting in the update with higher damage, less interruption, more items that have useful stats etc. Enemies now use skills and have AI types as well which makes things a more varied.

I like the other ideas as well and we'll get those added in, more interesting boss fight behaviours etc.

in reply to whining about this holy trinity thing

The alternative you suggest is homogenous characters who can do everything themselves. i have no idea why you think this will increase teamwork.
It would just mean that there would be no point in playing any class because they would all be the same unfathomable in different flavours.

Prestige classes are an interesting idea, but the druid to necromancer swing is too far IMO, maybe a mage thing so their damage becomes drain, but going from neutral good divine casting to pure evil arcane casting just because you hit mid level is silly

Ya I suppose but I think a way to upgrade your class would make it more interesting rather then have the 5 basics there could be maybe 15 if each class had the option of 2 classes to upgrade to or stay at the current one. It's a idea but it would need lots of thinking to be actually considered in the game.

in reply to whining about this holy trinity thing

The alternative you suggest is homogenous characters who can do everything themselves. i have no idea why you think this will increase teamwork.
It would just mean that there would be no point in playing any class because they would all be the same unfathomable in different flavours.

Prestige classes are an interesting idea, but the druid to necromancer swing is too far IMO, maybe a mage thing so their damage becomes drain, but going from neutral good divine casting to pure evil arcane casting just because you hit mid level is silly

Thanks for reading: Nuff said

I don't know if anyone ever played FFXI but they had a sub class system which i thought was a great idea. It would probably be very hard to incorporate into this game, but maybe if anyone thought it over. For example lvl 30 Druid /lvl 15 Mage as sub class the ability lvl would be lvl 15 Mage but this would make it easier for a Druid to solo and lvl quicker being able to use cloak of fire but it would be weaker then that of a high lvl mage. It could possibly make it where melee classes wouldn't be as overpowered as well. Also it could give the game the sub healer In a group as Mage/Druid with a lower lvl nature heal
It's just an idea but I thought it would be cool