Celtic Heroes

Hello, before I respond to the recent comments there are a few things that need to be cleared up:

Firstly, there are a number of players arguing for both sides, however unfortunately instead of providing evidence and intellectual additions to the debate, many posts from these people are solely of attempt to ignite flames, resort to personal attacks (none of which have been true whatsoever), or simply hold no relevance whatsoever in this discussion. I have no intention for this thread to be locked (for such an action would limit intellectual expansion and curiosity, and its locking only detriments Benevolence's propaganda), however enflamed violence seems to have risen to endangering volumes thus far, so please extinguish the tendencies to make up and post absurd propositions.

Secondly, I would like to ask players not from Taranis who feel compelled to voice their opinions and attack the other side to please respect and acknowledge the fact that Taranis is quite different than most other servers, not only in their difference of governance but in the age and maturity of the majority of our endgame players. Taranis is run by adults, many (if not most) of the endgame players are mature, bright, and reasonable folks who would rather fight bosses than other people, so naturally clan warfare is not preferred. I am sure pure-FFA is all great and fun, however that preference is entirely of one's own opinion, and not all share the same opinion. Please respect that Taranis is peaceful not by force, but by choice, and that this peace is a server-wide agreement that is upheld by each clan. You may not be into server-wide peace, just as I may not be into FFA. However, I respect your opinion and servers that choose to play by those rules, and expect that you respect Taranis' populus and their opinion of what a fun community-based MMO means as well.

Thirdly, this is not the place to assume. Plenty of posts so far on this thread are incorrectly assuming specifics such as the methods in which Aeon, Pride, and Paradogz distribute drops, the rules of our server, the personalities/lives of people posting, and our clan rules. Please refrain from using those assumptions in your posts unless you are certain they are accurate. Arguing an opinion is wonderful, but attacking with misinformation.. I think we all would prefer my posts be shorter!

Lastly, many of these posts are rather repetitive, and some of these attacks are unsupported by anything other than "because OTM." A point of mine has yet to be quoted and/or rebuttled, however the same attacks keep coming, and I keep responding in variations. If you would like to respond to a point of mine, please do so!

Now for responses:

Since Aeons and Pride decided to form an ingame government, why don't you guys have the players of taranis vote on which rules they want to keep and which rules they want gone. That way everyone is happy

The actual system is not too far from this: the generals of each endgame clan in the peace alliance are in a group chat, where they propose and modify/remove rules. For each change, each clan has one vote. The method in which a clan chooses their vote is up to them, and they can speak to their clannies and have a clan vote on each rule if they want. If Benevolence desires, they can join the endgame alliance and propose changes to the server rules. The only requirement for them is the returning of their stolen raid gear (not all Bene members have stolen raid gear, only a few).

Also the only people you need on the "blacklist" are scammers.

Of course! Only one non-scammer has been given the title, years ago, and we do not believe anyone else will disrupt raid bosses to that extent. We expect players in the sub-endgame up to have caution when trading non-trusted players, so the only scammers we blacklist are those who steal raid gear from a clan with a clan property rule. If you do not believe such an act is worthy of the title "scammer", read the below scenario:

A new recruit joins the clan! He is well-informed of the clan rules, given a link to our clan rules spreadsheet, and agrees to uphold them. A few weeks later, after exceptional camping and leveling and social efforts, the recruit becomes a clansman. After attending raid bosses for a month or so, a halberd drops from Mordris that would be perfect for our new clansman's build, and as he meets the points threshold he decides to roll for it: he wins the halberd, and (as this is his first raid item) is reminded that all non-BoE raid drops must be returned to the clan upon leaving the clan. He remembers the rule, replies "of course!" and now has a Mord halberd. As months go by, the clansman realizes that Aeon is not for him.. the point systems, the organization, the community, he just does not feel like being there. With his mind made up, he leaves the clan. Now, a few hours later he is approached by an Aeon general who asks for the halberd back, as promised by the ex-clansman. After weighing the options, a shiny halberd or that shop dagger, he decides to to keep the halberd, tells the Aeon gen to "get lost", and logs off.

We lend an item to a clannie who promises to return it when they leave the clan, but when the time comes they refuse to give it back. If that is not scamming, I don't know what is!

I don't see why you guys need to ruin someone's gameplay just because they ran anyway with some gear that drops an unlimited amount of times or at least until OTM removes it from the game.

Good point, and if I were of your level I would think the same. The reason we care is because those items are not by any means in abundance. Yes, theoretically we will get another halberd and hrungnir brace eventually, however many drops from Mordris and Hrungnir and Necro are rather useless (there are plenty of posts on General Discussion and Votes/Feedback about this) making good drops scarce. If we had a large surplus of prime halberds and godly bracelets, we likely would not bother with clan property rules on those items. However it is not uncommon to get a sacrifice or spring of life item, and a good chunk of our raid drops wind up in the banks. There is large number of melee mains (not to mention adequately leveled duo-deviced alts), however not enough gear to go around. Every missing item counts.

Also, it is not only Mord/Necro/Proteus/Hrung/Aggy gear that is taken, but Gara/Skain sets and other event items. Unlike raid gear, there is a strict limit of those items available, and the loss of most good non-BoE event gear is significant.

Having multiple players outside of Aeons and Pride that are upset with the way things are running should be an indicator that a change needs to be made. Things will only get worse if you decide to ignore those indicators.

There will *almost* always be some people against any given decision that effects a body of people. That is a given, and each rule proposal/removal/modification is done to benefit the maximum amount of players. It is expected that a relatively-large endgame government would be shunned by some players, however we believe the benefits such an establishment provides to everyone outweighs the disgruntlement of those few. Things may get worse before they get better, but what generally happens is players who dislike server rules and the such end up transferring out of Taranis to another server (with valid reason of course) and never regret it.

@regen, if a group of players were camping and killed hrung but it was your clans kill in the rotation, will your clan throw a hissy fit? Your clan has no right to claim an open world boss.

No, our clan will not throw a hissy fit Raid bosses here are rarely camped - what would happen is: Benevolence finds Hrungnir up, musters forces, and usually sometime before the attempt an Aeon or Pride or Para or someone else will see lots of Bene in the sewers and word rapidly spreads to Aeon. Aeon then notifies their clan, gathers at Hrungnir, and a nice clean lock battle occurs. If Bene gains lock, then Aeon backs off and dodges adds, waiting for Bene to wipe (but not disrupting their kill), and if Bene succeeds in killing then.. well.. they have never gotten lock during a raid boss attempt so I don't know! If they do kill however, I do not believe our clan would resort to verbal lashings.. For there is nothing we can do about it!

We have a right to claim an open world boss if those in the world respect the claim. On Taranis, the vast majority of sub-endgame+ players do respect boss claims, so a player/clan is able to claim bosses.

Your analogy of renting a property is ludicrous and makes no sense. An actual applicable analogy would be working a job, and for your services (turning up and helping on bosses) you get rewarded with pay (gear). If you decide to leave/get fired from your job, your boss does not ask for your salary back. There is no land in the equation, you're grasping at straws.

Well, actually the renters analogy is a lot closer to how the rules work than the paycheck analogy. The thing is, in your analogy the property (money) is transferred to the receiver's personal ownership, so of course the boss can't ask for it back! In truth, the property is NOT transferred to the receivers's personal ownership, instead it still remains property of the clan but is allowed to be used by the receiver. In Aeon, you borrow gear from the clan. You don't own it.

No one needs another clans permission to kill a boss, if you cant see how ridiculous that sounds all hope is lost.

Here is a nice allegory to explain:

You are with a group of four friends and suddenly a money tree appears in front of you all! Instead of fighting over it, you all decide to equally spit the wealth it bears: one $20 bill every hour. So first, one person gets a $20 bill, then a second person gets it, then a third, a fourth, the fifth, back to the first, the second, and so on. You all benefit equally from this shared agreement, and all prosper.

Well, eventually someone else comes along and approaches the money tree. You and your four friends form a circle around it and say "look, we aren't looking to fight over this money tree, so you are welcome to join in and get free money as well!"

Now, this newcomer has a choice:
A) Join the money tree group, and benefit just as much as the others without conflict.
B) Try to fight the five friends and take the money.

The newcomer decides that, due to the kindness of this group for offering to share their wealth and the small likelihood that he/she could take on these five people singlehandedly, joining in on the rotation is a much better option. He/she chooses path A and joins the circle of friends.

And that is how our raid boss rotations work.

i would be very upset that unimportant and selfish players can make up rules on a whim.

No player can "make up rules on a whim", especially server-wide rules. The clans review it, discuss it, and vote on it.. the process is not a one-day affair! Also, the "unimportant" people doing the discussing are not level 50's, but generals in the endgame clans with experience and familiarity with the server.

It is very clear that these two clans are made up of Veteran/Wealthy players who beleive that together their word is law...disgusting, CH is a game..I feel very sorry for you guys if you have to rule and hold hostage a game server just to feel good.

Actually, those two clans have a strong variety of players that have been playing for various lengths of time. Their combined and agreed word is law only to those who choose to accept it as so. You are not required to accept the server rules as your own, however as a result will have a very difficult time.. as these rules are for the great benefit of everyone who agrees to follow them, and you may find yourself unable to get DL/EDL without paying exorbitant black market prices.

Ofc ruling a server this way isn't easy because most people disagree with it, but why would you guys care, as long as you get all of the glory you don't care what happens to the people outside of Aeons and Pride

How fun it must be that you are ruining a large majority of peoples enjoyment of this game, imposing laws and rules that you have no right to create, what an achievement that you are now unpopular and despised by the regular CH community.

You have not played anywhere near the endgame level on Taranis. Most players are in heavy favor of the endgame alliance, the freedom from BS and ksings, and the ability to camp and help your clan alongside friends from another clan without stress or competition. If Aeon and Pride were interested in getting "all the glory" we would not care about those not in our respective clans.. instead we support peace and server-wide rules to allow anyone and any clan to succeed and enjoy the game.

Also, those supporting Benevolence on this thread are by no means representative of the "regular CH community".

The rules have done nothing but cause conflicts

Actually, judging by the recorded boss kills, these rules have prevented almost a half-million conflicts. XDL and DL can be camped and killed in peace, raid bosses are neither griefed nor stressed over, event bosses, once locked, are not foiled by rival clans.. The only conflicts these rules have caused are from those who purposefully break them and don't want to correct their wrong.

Could we please have the list of player blacklisted from rotations, along with that we would like to see what clan they were in a gear they supposedly stole. Also if you could explain how people receive pardons would be nice, this option is not posted about much and I'm sure many are curious.

Due to Naming and Shaming I can not reveal the names on the forums. Aeon has two players who have stolen raid gear and reside in Benevolence: yourself, and the French-Canadian one (you should know who). I am sure you are well aware of the gear you stole from us, and the French-Canadian is aware of their stolen gear. I do not know the exact item names, but the gens have record if you wish to pursue them.

Sure, I'll explain pardons! So when you steal raid gear, there are two ways for the crime to be redeemed: by returning the gear to the clan you stole it from, or by getting pardoned.

Being pardoned means the clan you stole from permits you to keep the gear. That gear would then be considered "clanless", and you are welcome to sell it, trade it, give it away, whatever you like. It is yours. Usually, pardons are reserved only for special circumstances: an example would be an Aeon general last year who, after being caught in a rather dramatic scandal, was permitted to leave the clan without returning their raid gear. Another example is one the leaders of Bene, who I believe was permitted to keep raid gear that once belonged to Pride. Pardons are not commonly given, however it is an option.

I don't know if i'm considered blacklisted because i bought a stolen mordris spear off somone who is blacklisted. I request a pardon from regen

That probably was not the best idea.. I would try to trade that back if I were you!

perhaps Regen should start thinking for himself.

I assure you, none of my words are copy-pasted! These are my own voice, my own beliefs, and as I have with Ghostly strongly suggest you familiarize yourself with Endgame Taranis before making more sweeping assumptions about our populus.

If these clans take back raid drops members earned and bought using a dkp system while burning through there own plat/money/time to kill shouldn't the top clans refund the members who left there plat back for killing to atleast be fair to them for taking back the drops they earned? Atleast be fair with it if u taking back drops u wouldn't even possibly have if wasn't for those helping who used there lix and time to help u kill the boss in the first place.
So If u gonna take drops they worked hard for by coming to help kill, gaining the amount of points needed and burning through there plat so u guys can be able to kill it in first place What do ppl who leave get in return since they have helped u gain so much of these drops? Sounds like those who choose to leave get ripped off and robbed of there money and time

That is a good argument!

When you leave the clan you keep:
- The DL/EDL armor/weapons you received
- Any BoE items you accumulated

A hidden benefit of the clan property rule is it helps prevent clan-hopping: generally we (at least the members of Aeon) become suspicious upon seeing an application from someone who jumps from clan to clan, for we do our best to accept players who we think will become attached to our community and never want to leave. If you have gear that you are required to return, it makes you really think before leaving the clan. Instead of having people jump around as they please, with little loyalty, people leave because they really do want to leave. If you really think another clan is best for you, then returning your raid gear from your current clan should not be a barrier.

A very simple solution is that pride and aeon maintain their "Laws" within their own clans but..

1. Stop penalising those who leave the clan.

2. Stop "blacklisting" those who buy or sell gear who are not in Aeon/Pride

3. Discuss a fair way for all clans to be involved in bosses if they are capable.

4. Pay more attention to those within their own clan, instead of those who are not

5. And most importantly recognize these other clans as another group of players, who whilst playing in a different way are just as entitled to everything that your clan experiences.

1. We do not penalize those leave our clan, only those who leave without returning the clan's raid gear.

2. We do not blacklist those who buy/sell raid gear.. and while the buying/selling of DL drops is *technically* illegal, it is unenforced. Despite this, the market prices for DL are shockingly high!

3. We do have a fair way - every clan capable of killing a boss is allowed to do so. If you simply skimmed over this post (I do admit it is lengthy), revisit my "money tree" allegory! Every clan capable of killing a raid boss is allowed to kill at a rate equal to Aeon's and Pride's.

4. We do pay attention: the leadership contacts and speaks privately with clannies to make sure everyone is doing great, and recently we conducted an anonymous poll of clan satisfaction. From the responses we have received so far (around 2/3 of the active clan), there is overwhelming satisfaction with how the clan is the run and support for Aeon.

5. We do! That is why Paradogz and Nexus, while not having the strength of Aeon and Pride, are included in all server benefits and rights, each with voting power matching Aeon/Pride.

I truly believe that Benevolence has the potential to be a clan that fits a player-style not exactly met by the other clans. Their clan is by no means required to have clan property rules, they are allowed to buy/sell drops within their clan, and if they decide to straighten out can join the endgame alliance and have influence and a vote in server policy. Their primary obstacle is getting their members to return any stolen raid gear.. The sooner they do that, the sooner they can start killing Aggy/Hrungnir/Mordris/Necro and getting gear.

Yes i know what boss rotation is and how it works; no need for the condescending explanation of your rules you have regurgitated so many times now. Im not here to tell you how to run your clan, thats up to your leaders to decide. However, you have no right to claim an open world boss as yours unless EVERY single person agrees and like you said, not everyone does, nor do you have the right to try and impose your rules on other players that have no affiliation with your clan.

When i stumble upon a boss, i do not need to ask whether to join in for the kill, i can attack it and lock it with whomever i want. Thats the nature of an open world mmo. It does not matter whether you agree with it or not.

Go back and read bdafinest post. You taking everything back is borderline scamming, do you refund their plat and time used helping your clan kill a boss you otherwise wouldnt have been able to? In your ridiculous analogy that would be taking back the property AND asking for all of the renter's belongings inside it. Labelling it at clan property does not make it anymore right.

Yes i know what boss rotation is and how it works; no need for the condescending explanation of your rules you have regurgitated so many times now. Im not here to tell you how to run your clan, thats up to your leaders to decide. However, you have no right to claim an open world boss as yours unless EVERY single person agrees and like you said, not everyone does, nor do you have the right to try and impose your rules on other players that have no affiliation with your clan.

When i stumble upon a boss, i do not need to ask whether to join in for the kill, i can attack it and lock it with whomever i want. Thats the nature of an open world mmo. It does not matter whether you agree with it or not.

Go back and read bdafinest post. You taking everything back is borderline scamming, do you refund their plat and time used helping your clan kill a boss you otherwise wouldnt have been able to? In your ridiculous analogy that would be taking back the property AND asking for all of the renter's belongings inside it. Labelling it at clan property does not make it anymore right.

Thing is, you guys are acting like if they were truly forcing you... as u said :

i do not need to ask whether to join in for the kill, i can attack it and lock it with whomever i want

. Well ofc you can, but it goes against their rules and they will punish you later.
I mean players are all equals...you both have the same power ingame...go fight if that's what you wish

It does not matter whether you agree with it or not.

and here again that mean you act against their free will.

Both side are fighting for a form of freedom, but at some point I see no true difference. One is a freedom with guding rules to avoid abuse, the other is FFA (wich is good either, just a different game style). But both will NEVER fit EVERYONE !!!

However, you have no right to claim an open world boss as yours unless EVERY single person agrees and like you said, not everyone does, nor do you have the right to try and impose your rules on other players that have no affiliation with your clan.

well actually these rules only take action on those who believe it. They CAN create rules. They CAN force u obey it if u dont fight them. They CAN rule a server if no one kill them. They CAN, because it help many. And nothing will EVER please everyone.

Go back and read bdafinest post. You taking everything back is borderline scamming, do you refund their plat and time used helping your clan kill a boss you otherwise wouldnt have been able to? In your ridiculous analogy that would be taking back the property AND asking for all of the renter's belongings inside it. Labelling it at clan property does not make it anymore right

Again, its just a different perception of the game than yours...As someone told me repetidly before " its not your propriety, its OTM..." . NW I wont raise it more..
Also, those clans are considering that raid and boss killing are clan fight. Not individual fight. It is selfish from you to want to keep drops that every teammates worked for. Those boss were down by clan, and not a single player. Meaning that it belong to clan. Easy hehe
OFC some clans consider it otherway. But that's why every clan usually have different rules. If you don't like them, then go away and join another clan. Or open a poll amongst the clanmates, and see. I'm pretty sure regen and the others would change it if more than 50% of their guild would. As a matter of fact, if you enter this clan and fight with them, that mean you agree their rules ( or that mean you just want the drops and then you don't deserve respect, as this is pure greed)
I don't see what's wrong here? Intern rules of a clan are the only concerns of the clan itself...not a valid point here sorry.

on your last sentence...is there also anyone refunding the plat that gens spent helping their clanmates? From my time in pride some gens were giving all lix, books etc for boss fight to those who hadn't them? That's called kidness, and if you only spend your gold and plat for your character, yours and you only, hoping for refund when you help someone clanmates...well...u guessed it right? that's called being selfish !! ( OOooo this simley is called twisted, as it seems that people find that I 'm twisted ill go for this one now hahah )

no need for the condescending explanation of your rules you have regurgitated so many times now.

Well, you guys are mostly asking and saying the same thing over and over, that's legit you get the same answer lol

Ditto, on other servers one clan kills all... It seems ridiculously kind to me that bosses are shared at all

couldn't agree more...they definitively should try FFA server, the rage it give and the fact that unless you are in top clans. It's another way of seeing the game, and if you like it ( wich is truly respectful, I went too mad on those server to continue playing) well try it on Taranis, but you will face a high and violent protestation movement. Or just move to another server.

All I see is a bunch of whining children who think if they spam in this thread long enough, a revolution will occur.

If the top clans are happy with their system, the only way to change it is to make your own end game clan and take bosses without the rotation. Constantly spewing rubbish on forums is not going to achieve anything.

If you think you're exposing the truth or something to other servers, then here's a news flash: other servers with just 1 dominant clan killing every boss are much much worse for the server.

*Watches Armo drop the mic*

oh god ya, he spoke the truth hehe!!


last: tyvm to Iman687! who understood fully my point and read my post! as he rightly said: I enjoyed playing in this server, but those rules and politic talks bored me one, apple killed my ios device, so I dropped Taranis not being sad! I do not defend those clans but their concept and ideas of democratic rules, it's respectful and seems to please many peoples. Be happy with that!
you got it right he!!

Anyway you guys are asking for more fight and freedom. But here you are still talking (as armo said, just go endgame and achieve your goal) and nothing seems to be done to your so called "problem". Patience is virtue...go endgame, and once there start your little revolution.
Here you are doing the exact same things yoou guys hate: politics and rules talks...
all I can say so far

Enjoy

Love the Aeon/Pride defenders so far.

If you think that calling someone a jabroni wins a debate... And Chrome, who simply hides behind Jabroni boy without actually making any points himself.

Perhaps the biggest idiot so far

All I see is a bunch of whining children who think if they spam in this thread long enough, a revolution will occur.

If the top clans are happy with their system, the only way to change it is to make your own end game clan and take bosses without the rotation. Constantly spewing rubbish on forums is not going to achieve anything.

If you think you're exposing the truth or something to other servers, then here's a news flash: other servers with just 1 dominant clan killing every boss are much much worse for the server.
World: Crom

Who tells people to stop whining...by whining.


Aeon/Pride must be insecure a to how unpopular they are now.

Yes ofc we want to just go kill endgames bosses and yes ofc we could just do it whenever we aren't a clan of "jabronnies" but skilled players most who left endgame clans fed up, but instead we thought best to come to forums first hash it out and fight to get rotations... We figured they wanted peace like they said, yet all I hear coming from regen is har blame and repeating of the same two rules he learned.

Many have said ohh "just move from taranis" well it not easy as it seeems a lot of money time effort and gameplay go into characters and to just up and leave cause a few from a clan don't like me is not gonna happen..

What's sad is if anyone in these clans are caught helping (even if they tried to loch) they are punished by losing boss time or rights to buy gear or be geared EDL DL..
Truly is sad when a clans overbearing laws can control friends.

Also can I speak with a real general or leader I'm done debating with aeons lawyer/guard on retainer. And to be honest you aren't even in gen board so stop lying saying a majority of each clan has a say when ou know that a lie!

I also find it amusing that the only excuse towards me that any of you could provide, was that i have never played on Taranis. I already mentioned that i have an alt and whilst i do not play on it often i am included in many Taranis goings on...

So as for this..

1. We do not penalize those leave our clan, only those who leave without returning the clan's raid gear.

2. We do not blacklist those who buy/sell raid gear.. and while the buying/selling of DL drops is *technically* illegal, it is unenforced. Despite this, the market prices for DL are shockingly high!

3. We do have a fair way - every clan capable of killing a boss is allowed to do so. If you simply skimmed over this post (I do admit it is lengthy), revisit my "money tree" allegory! Every clan capable of killing a raid boss is allowed to kill at a rate equal to Aeon's and Pride's.

4. We do pay attention: the leadership contacts and speaks privately with clannies to make sure everyone is doing great, and recently we conducted an anonymous poll of clan satisfaction. From the responses we have received so far (around 2/3 of the active clan), there is overwhelming satisfaction with how the clan is the run and support for Aeon.

5. We do! That is why Paradogz and Nexus, while not having the strength of Aeon and Pride, are included in all server benefits and rights, each with voting power matching Aeon/Pride.

You sir are a liar.

And it isnt just Aeon. I can also tell you i have witnessed Pride alts and mains harassing abusing and killing low lvl players who are either in or thinking of joining Benevolence.


Your entire argument is pack of lies.

If anyone needs more proof please let me know, i am still in the buy and sell boards and use my alt to catch the goings on of Pride and Aeons "peacefulness".

I will continue to rebuke your argument as i still have quite a lot of evidence.

Yeah I won't bother anymore. Couple of my clannies had a laugh at you guy's miserable attempt to showcase Taranis situation which has nothing wrong with it. I'll just leave it at that and let you guys continue crying while nothing is done and the top clans keep getting stronger.

I wish Pride, Aeon and any other clan the best of luck in the boss rotations, and gl with gelebron.

Thats funny armo....

Cant handle the heat?

Amusing how as soon as i expose their actions, your rebuke is to tell me to stop.

What a shame, theres more.